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Gove to stop pupils sitting same exam several times

Michael Gove signalled an end yesterday to the culture of schoolchildren sitting the same exams several times as it emerged that nearly 90,000 pupils took maths at least three times last year in an effort to boost grades.
Nearly 250,000 pupils sat exams in the subject more than once as part of a practice condemned for piling up stress and demotivating children.

Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/education/article3849589.ece

(I couldn't subscribe for the full article but this is a nice summary)

My opinion of Gove's opinion.

This is utterly ridiculous - I'm sorry but nearly every employer requires a C in Maths and English, is he saying people who fail Maths first time, fail maths for life and hence have to always set their targets 'lower' because many employers and universities refuse to take them.

I would like to share a bit of a personal story about the matter. For me I failed my Maths GCSE twice, this was because I just didn't really get it at all, in foundation I got D in November and then D in March. As a last ditch attempt to get me to pass they put me up to higher tier and I scored a B. One thing that really pisses me off about Gove and his naivety is the fact that he genuinely wants people who failed the first or second time to suffer, what seems for their entire life. Without the chance to retake my Maths GCSE several times I would have being doing a Media and I.C.T BTEC at A-level, now no offense to these subjects but they aren't the most employable/useful subjects in the world for me, I found my place in Mathematics after starting the A-level, with barriers like Gove is imposing I would have never become a mathematician let alone succeed at a-levels.

To summarise I do not like the stance Gove is taking on GCSE examinations, yes they are not as hard as A-levels but they are the barrier to A-levels, upon failing a GCSE you can usually be certain your school/college won't let you take it further. If this will happen, then we have more skill-less workers and poorer education to employment prospects for some people with hidden potential.

What is your opinion TSR? Down with multiple GCSE Maths/other retakes or continue them and revolt against Gove :biggrin:
(edited 10 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
He seems determined to show the world what an utter **** he is. And yes, that was the c-word.
(edited 10 years ago)
The man who has had mutiple attempts at changing the educational system and abhors retakes. That's some irony right there. *sigh*

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Reply 3
I think if someone fails Maths then yes, they should be able to retake. I find it more annoying though when people resit A Level exams multiple times then come out with A* and As.
I have to admit, despite the fact most things Gove suggests or has implemented usually annoy me, I do partially support him here. When I was at school/college there was such a bad culture of people who would fail their exams or performed poorly because they didn't revise or never listened in class; all because they knew they were able to resit 6 months later and achieve a better grade if they didn't do as well as they wanted first time around. On the other scale, we had students who were achieving 90-95% in their Further Maths exams, getting upset because they didn't come first in their class and wanted the opportunity to resit so they could score a personal victory. Of course there were also people who genuinely had bad luck on the day or struggled under exam pressure and deserved an opportunity to prove their potential once again, but the first two classes of people mentioned above were not the people resits were designed for.

To be honest, I support the resit system, but only if it's well regulated and severely restricted. My experience during my education through GCSE and my A-Levels a couple of years ago told me that we're too soft on some underachievers. Resits should be limited to people who score at least two grades lower than their predicted/estimated grade (i.e. a D when expecting a B), with exceptions given under special circumstances. It should also be limited, generally, to a single resit opportunity, with exceptions given under special circumstances (i.e. a family death). Failing that, I would support a student being permitted to take a second resit, but only if the grade was capped at the next grade (i.e. a C if they had a D for their resits). That would place it closer to the University model, where we're only permitted a resit if we fail, and even then a resit can only achieve a maximum of 40%. It is a great incentive for students to A) not mess up their first try and B) if plagued with personal issues, to report them to their school so arrangements can be made for their circumstances to be considered.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by ColdColourStitch
On the other scale, we had students who were achieving 90-95% in their Further Maths exams, getting upset because they didn't come first in their class and wanted the opportunity to resit so they could score a personal victory.

One of the things my physics A-level teacher did was ask us all to say what grade we wanted overall from the subject at the very start of the year. So basically what you'd be happy with and what you might need for uni.

If you achieved that mark in exams, they would leave you be and would highly discourage resits. If you were borderline, they'd help you out. If you were far under, they'd offer substantially more help.


I disagree that there should be no resits, but I think it's something which should be discussed with your teachers as well. I mean, what's to stop someone from leaving college and privately sitting exams? They could do the same for GCSEs. What are going to be the rules on that?

The culture of relying on resits is a bad one, but I don't believe scrapping resits is the solution. I feel confident that employers and universities are capable of assessing people and setting their own entry requirements by themselves.
The misinformation being propagated about everything Gove ever does is absurd. Resits are not being banned, however many times people claim otherwise, what is being stopped is people being able to resit individual modules in which they performed poorly multiple times. Coupled with a return to summer only exams, in future if you want to retake an exam you'll have to retake the whole thing the following year. This is more or less returning to the situation experienced by those of us who took our GCSEs just a few ago. I can just think back to the dark days of 2008, when the lack of modular exams was was widely criticised as damaging pupils life chances... or not.

Moreover, what Michael Gove is particularly complaining about today are the increasing number of students who are being entered to sit the same GCSE with several exam boards in the same exam session, or both GCSEs and IGCSEs et cetera, so that they can then take the highest grade they achieve. This is clearly a scandalous way for schools to behave and I would be shocked if anyone on here thought it at all fair. But, of course, Michael Gove condemned it and everything he says is wrong, unfair and damaging to children bla bla bla ipso facto.
Original post by Robbie242
Michael Gove signalled an end yesterday to the culture of schoolchildren sitting the same exams several times as it emerged that nearly 90,000 pupils took maths at least three times last year in an effort to boost grades.
Nearly 250,000 pupils sat exams in the subject more than once as part of a practice condemned for piling up stress and demotivating children.

Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/education/article3849589.ece

(I couldn't subscribe for the full article but this is a nice summary)

My opinion of Gove's opinion.

This is utterly ridiculous - I'm sorry but nearly every employer requires a C in Maths and English, is he saying people who fail Maths first time, fail maths for life and hence have to always set their targets 'lower' because many employers and universities refuse to take them.

I would like to share a bit of a personal story about the matter. For me I failed my Maths GCSE twice, this was because I just didn't really get it at all, in foundation I got D in November and then D in March. As a last ditch attempt to get me to pass they put me up to higher tier and I scored a B. One thing that really pisses me off about Gove and his naivety is the fact that he genuinely wants people who failed the first time to suffer, what seems for their entire life. Without the chance to retake my Maths GCSE several times I would have being doing a Media and I.C.T BTEC at A-level, now no offense to these subjects but they aren't the most employable/useful subjects in the world for me, I found my place in Mathematics after starting the A-level, with barriers like Gove is imposing I would have never become a mathematician let alone succeed at a-levels.

To summarise I do not like the stance Gove is taking on GCSE examinations, yes they are not as hard as A-levels but they are the barrier to A-levels, upon failing a GCSE you can usually be certain your school/college won't let you take it further. If this will happen, then we have more skill-less workers and poorer education to employment prospects for some people with hidden potential.

What is your opinion TSR? Down with GCSE Maths/other retakes or continue them and revolt against Gove :biggrin:


No. He's saying that people shouldn't be taking exams multiple times to get better marks. If we allowed that all of the time, then even people who passed should be allowed to resit them time and time again to increase their overall mark.

Sorry, but if you can't get through on a resit, then an employer needs to know that kind of stuff because you're being disingenuous to a potential employer. After all, would you like to be treated by a Doctor who had to have 3 or 4 attempts to pass?

For some unknown reason, and I blame Labour entirely for this as they're the ones who have screwed this countrys education system up, we think that you can only be a success if you get good marks. Sadly children, in the real world this isn't the case. You will fail in life for being ineffective in your place of employement and grades in exams won't change that fact.
Original post by ColdColourStitch
To be honest, I support the resit system, but only if it's well regulated and severely restricted. My experience during my education through GCSE and my A-Levels a couple of years ago told me that we're too soft on some underachievers. Resits should be limited to people who score at least two grades lower than their predicted/estimated grade (i.e. a D when expecting a B), with exceptions given under special circumstances. It should also be limited, generally, to a single resit opportunity, with exceptions given under special circumstances (i.e. a family death). Failing that, I would support a student being permitted to take a second resit, but only if the grade was capped at the next grade (i.e. a C if they had a D for their resits). That would place it closer to the University model, where we're only permitted a resit if we fail, and even then a resit can only achieve a maximum of 40%. It is a great incentive for students to A) not mess up their first try and B) if plagued with personal issues, to report them to their school so arrangements can be made for their circumstances to be considered.


I like this sort of thinking. I think there is too much 'all or nothing' with the policies that are being implemented by Gove. No sort of intelligent thinking behind them at all. Then again, a more cynical person might suggest that's reflective of the electorate...
Reply 9
I went to a grammar school where people voluntarily bombed out of maths and science modules halfway through the course because they knew they could afford to redo them later. One kid was on target for straight As and A*s; he squandered his opportunities, retook those exams that he flunked, and ended up getting top grades and going to a decent RG uni.

People should not have the right or opportunity to waste the school's and teachers' time. If you knew it was your only opportunity, you'd pull your socks up and have a fair shot at it. There's a Labour gov-inspired culture of 'equal opportunities=everyone doing brilliantly at all times' that leads to grade inflation, box-ticking, obsession with targets, and our formerly great education system becoming a process that kids feel uninspired to go through.

Obviously I support retakes for people who were ill or had unusual circumstances the first time round. I don't support it, though, for people who just want another go at bumping their grades up to unrepresentative levels, whether its because they feel they have to or because they think they can get away with it. Better to sort out employers demanding unrealistic qualifications than to pursue this endless inflation.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 10
Original post by MatureStudent36
No. He's saying that people shouldn't be taking exams multiple times to get better marks. If we allowed that all of the time, then even people who passed should be allowed to resit them time and time again to increase their overall mark.

Sorry, but if you can't get through on a resit, then an employer needs to know that kind of stuff because you're being disingenuous to a potential employer. After all, would you like to be treated by a Doctor who had to have 3 or 4 attempts to pass?

For some unknown reason, and I blame Labour entirely for this as they're the ones who have screwed this countrys education system up, we think that you can only be a success if you get good marks. Sadly children, in the real world this isn't the case. You will fail in life for being ineffective in your place of employement and grades in exams won't change that fact.


The thing that you don't seem to understand is that people develop their ability to work in exams/under pressure and work hard different times in their lives. Now I've got to say GCSE resits must stay - GCSEs are ever so vital to moving onto the next stage of education that putting a limit of 1 or 2 tries may not be enough for some people.

By the time A-level arrives people need to get their head into gear - there is no messing around now, retakes are seen by universities and this is your future you're working towards. But a 15 or 16 year old may not know full well the impact and importance of these examinations - I like that universities understand that A-levels are a greater predictor of degree success, because most people do not work to their full potential at GCSE (i.e. actually work hard).

Are you saying you'd rather a person like me clog up the job centre or rather work at a bank or work in research and contribute something much greater to society?

Do you even do basic economics?

Note: I understand that restricting resits leaves less incentive to fail but still an overwhelming amount will fail because they may not fully understand the content or due to a lack of work

If someone fails they either 1. motivate themselves with the failure 2. Go down a path of failure
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 11
Original post by Plainview
I went to a grammar school where people voluntarily bombed out of maths and science modules halfway through the course because they knew they could afford to redo them later. One kid was on target for straight As and A*s; he squandered his opportunities, retook those exams that he flunked, and ended up getting top grades and going to a decent RG uni.

People should not have the right or opportunity to waste the school's and teachers' time. If you knew it was your only opportunity, you'd pull your socks up and have a fair shot at it. There's a Labour gov-inspired culture of 'equal opportunities=everyone doing brilliantly at all times' that leads to grade inflation, box-ticking, obsession with targets, and our formerly great education system becoming a process that kids feel uninspired to go through.

Obviously I support retakes for people who were ill or had unusual circumstances the first time round. I don't support it, though, for people who just want another go at bumping their grades up to unrepresentative levels, whether its because they feel they have to or because they think they can get away with it. Better to sort out employers demanding unrealistic qualifications than to pursue this endless inflation.


I agree - bumping up grade retakes at GCSE should be severely restricted - though some individuals may need to retake e.g. maths to get an A* which many universities for competitive courses desire, if they got a D first time what chance do they have of getting onto that university course? - without 1 or perhaps 2 retakes, 0
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 12
Original post by Robbie242
I agree - bumping up grade retakes at GCSE should be severely restricted - though some individuals may need to retake e.g. maths to get an A* which many universities for competitive courses desire, if they got a D first time what chance do they have of getting onto that university course? - without retakes, 0


Which universities require an A* in maths for a course that does not involve maths? Because if you're referring to courses that do involve an element of maths, then people who get Ds in GCSE maths should probably be reevaluating their options anyway.
Original post by Robbie242
The thing that you don't seem to understand is that people develop their ability to work in exams/under pressure and work hard different times in their lives. Now I've got to say GCSE resits must stay - GCSEs are ever so vital to moving onto the next stage of education that putting a limit of 1 or 2 tries may not be enough for some people.

By the time A-level arrives people need to get their head into gear - there is no messing around now, retakes are seen by universities and this is your future you're working towards. But a 15 or 16 year old may not know full well the impact and importance of these examinations - I like that universities understand that A-levels are a greater predictor of degree success, because most people do not work to their full potential at GCSE (i.e. actually work hard).

Are you saying you'd rather a person like me clog up the job centre or rather work at a bank or work in research and contribute something much greater to society?

Do you even do basic economics?

Note: I understand that restricting resits leaves less incentive to fail but still an overwhelming amount will fail because they may not fully understand the content or due to a lack of work

If someone fails they either 1. motivate themselves with the failure 2. Go down a path of failure


Actually, I've heard university academics say precisely the opposite. More than one of the companies to which I applied to an internship this year asked for excellent GCSEs for graduate roles and explicitly said they found them a better indicator of success in the workplace than A-levels.
I think at least one resit should be allowed, some people just generally balls up the examination; hopefully universities will cater to the new examination system by lowering standard offers.
Reply 15
Original post by Plainview
Which universities require an A* in maths for a course that does not involve maths? Because if you're referring to courses that do involve an element of maths, then people who get Ds in GCSE maths should probably be reevaluating their options anyway.


Usually a few, but yes mostly maths related.

One thing that annoys me is your attitude, oh because somebody got a D in GCSE they can't enter the field of mathematics? That's a die before even trying attitude, you're basically saying I should chose something else like History or English because my GCSE grade suggests I'm bad at Maths?

I didn't know I wanted to do maths until my 3rd try of GCSE maths - with your across the board attitude thousands of individuals who develop at a later stage are at a disadvantage. Your system proposed seems to suggest that if you didn't get it first (or second time) then its not worth a third time - even though there are exceptions.

I understand I'm getting very personal about this recent news but if we had such a supportive attitude of D grade means 'not this course' then you could end up with a situation where people either hate the subjects they do at uni and drop out, or benefit from the lost incentive to take the subject further - which they realised they would not work for, nor be good at said subject. It is not easy to do a cost-benefit analysis of such a complex procedure and set of individual personalities.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Robbie242
Michael Gove signalled an end yesterday to the culture of schoolchildren sitting the same exams several times as it emerged that nearly 90,000 pupils took maths at least three times last year in an effort to boost grades.
Nearly 250,000 pupils sat exams in the subject more than once as part of a practice condemned for piling up stress and demotivating children.

Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/education/article3849589.ece

(I couldn't subscribe for the full article but this is a nice summary)

My opinion of Gove's opinion.

This is utterly ridiculous - I'm sorry but nearly every employer requires a C in Maths and English, is he saying people who fail Maths first time, fail maths for life and hence have to always set their targets 'lower' because many employers and universities refuse to take them.

I would like to share a bit of a personal story about the matter. For me I failed my Maths GCSE twice, this was because I just didn't really get it at all, in foundation I got D in November and then D in March. As a last ditch attempt to get me to pass they put me up to higher tier and I scored a B. One thing that really pisses me off about Gove and his naivety is the fact that he genuinely wants people who failed the first time to suffer, what seems for their entire life. Without the chance to retake my Maths GCSE several times I would have being doing a Media and I.C.T BTEC at A-level, now no offense to these subjects but they aren't the most employable/useful subjects in the world for me, I found my place in Mathematics after starting the A-level, with barriers like Gove is imposing I would have never become a mathematician let alone succeed at a-levels.

To summarise I do not like the stance Gove is taking on GCSE examinations, yes they are not as hard as A-levels but they are the barrier to A-levels, upon failing a GCSE you can usually be certain your school/college won't let you take it further. If this will happen, then we have more skill-less workers and poorer education to employment prospects for some people with hidden potential.

What is your opinion TSR? Down with GCSE Maths/other retakes or continue them and revolt against Gove :biggrin:


If the plan is to stop free resitting, then I agree with Gove. If you fail your maths GCSE, then you should have to pay for the exams there on out. Frankly I don't see how Gove can 'prevent' anyone from resitting as long as they use their own money to do so - boards like AQA are independent.
Reply 17
Original post by Rinsed
Actually, I've heard university academics say precisely the opposite. More than one of the companies to which I applied to an internship this year asked for excellent GCSEs for graduate roles and explicitly said they found them a better indicator of success in the workplace than A-levels.


I just don't understand this but fair enough, they did say my GCSEs (4Dist*(media) Merit(Ict) 2B 5C)) were great GCSE grades when I worked at the Bank of England (which surprised me honestly).

It just confuses me how such a qualification taken at 16 is more useful than a qualification that actually requires you to work hard and understand a lot of the subject matter is seen as more useful for employers. Hmm but if that's true then fair enough
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 18
Original post by Robbie242
Usually a few, but yes mostly maths related.

One thing that annoys me is your attitude, oh because somebody got a D in GCSE they can't enter the field of mathematics? That's a die before even trying attitude, you're basically saying I should chose something else like History or English because my GCSE grade suggests I'm bad at Maths?

I didn't know I wanted to do maths until my 3rd try of GCSE maths - with your across the board attitude thousands of individuals who develop at a later stage are disadvantage. Your system proposed seems to suggest that if you didn't get it first (or second time) then its not worth a third time - even though there are exceptions.

I understand I'm getting very personal about this recent news but if we had such a supportive attitude of D grade means 'not this course' then you could end up with a situation where people either hate the subjects they do at uni and drop out, or benefit from the lost incentive to take the subject further - which they realised they would not work for, nor be good at said subject. It is not easy to do a cost-benefit analysis of such a complex procedure and set of individual personalities.


You'll note that you're not the sort of person that I was highlighting in my post. I was talking about people who abuse the retake system to simply get two bites at the cherry and grant themselves a year or so of time to waste (that's the school's and teachers' time). If you have decided that you want to continue with the subject that you repeatedly did badly in, then good on you. In my experience, you aren't in the majority though.
I think people should only be allowed to resit if they did really badly, say a D or lower.

It always annoyed me so much when people at school would resit modules again and again to bump their UMS up. I haven't resat a single exam in my life. :s-smilie:

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