BPI going to start suing UK music downloaders.

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username9816
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#41
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#41
(Original post by XTinaA)
What demand/supply equilibrium?! That only occurs in perfect competition, and the music industry is an oligopoly.
They are competing with the internet - There is an alternative for consumers which will affect the actions fo music companies.

As well as the music companies who may compete with eachother to some extent.

I would class it as a competitive market, in light of the pressure to reduce prices; which they will do.
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makesomenoise
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#42
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#42
(Original post by *reasoning*)
I thought that there were many music businesses who produced CD's. Perhaps I am not aware of the competition level in the music market.
Oligopoly: where supply of the market is concentrated in the hands of a few. So yes there may even be 100 firms, but if only a handful of those dominate, then it's an oligopoly.
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username9816
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#43
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#43
(Original post by XTinaA)
I think you'll find there are several million people who share my attitude. They all use Kazaa, WinMX and the like.

And if you meant consumers, use the plural "consumers", not the singular.
"The consumer ...."

This refers to a typical consumer in that market.
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username9816
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#44
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#44
(Original post by XTinaA)
Oligopoly: where supply of the market is concentrated in the hands of a few. So yes there may even be 100 firms, but if only a handful of those dominate, then it's an oligopoly.
I would say the market is competitive.
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makesomenoise
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#45
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#45
(Original post by *reasoning*)
"The consumer ...."

This refers to a typical consumer in that market.
Yes, "a" typical consumer. You told me earlier that "consumer" meant all the consumers in that market. Make up your mind.
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makesomenoise
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#46
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#46
(Original post by *reasoning*)
I would say the market is competitive.
Well obviously, it isn't a monopoly so there is some competition.

Yes the companies are in competition with the internet, but that doesn't mean they'll drop the prices if they can push to criminalise piraters and maintain their profits.
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username9816
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#47
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#47
(Original post by XTinaA)
Well obviously, it isn't a monopoly so there is some competition.

Yes the companies are in competition with the internet, but that doesn't mean they'll drop the prices if they can push to criminalise piraters and maintain their profits.
If consumer demand fell then they would have to lower prices.

I don't see why the demand/supply model wouldn't be representative in this case.
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username9816
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#48
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#48
(Original post by XTinaA)
Yes, "a" typical consumer. You told me earlier that "consumer" meant all the consumers in that market. Make up your mind.
Good point - When I say, "the consumer", this is referring to the typical consumer in that market - Of which the vast majority are like.
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makesomenoise
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#49
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#49
(Original post by *reasoning*)
If consumer demand fell then they would have to lower prices.

I don't see why the demand/supply model wouldn't be representative in this case.
The demand is the same but much of it has gone to pirating. If firms can eliminate this competitor and restore their market share they won't have to reduce prices.
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username9816
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#50
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#50
(Original post by XTinaA)
The demand is the same but much of it has gone to pirating. If firms can eliminate this competitor and restore their market share they won't have to reduce prices.
Well, end of the day it does depend on which path they follow.

I believe that the only way to to be more competitive is to reduce prices in the hope of luring back customers - I don't believe they can control piracy, not to a great enough extent anyway.

I agree that the CD Market is probably not "perfect competition" but in a general sense I think the demand/supply model I described does have a point.
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makesomenoise
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#51
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#51
(Original post by *reasoning*)
Well, end of the day it does depend on which path they follow.

I believe that the only way to to be more competitive is to reduce prices in the hope of luring back customers - I don't believe they can control piracy, not to a great enough extent anyway.

I agree that the CD Market is probably not "perfect competition" but in a general sense I think the demand/supply model I described does have a point.
If you carried on the economics A-Level you'd see that the very simple demand-supply model doesn't extend very far to real markets. Most markets are oligopolies and there are some markets of "monopolistic competition". The demand-supply issue is very different here.
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username9816
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#52
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#52
(Original post by XTinaA)
If you carried on the economics A-Level you'd see that the very simple demand-supply model doesn't extend very far to real markets. Most markets are oligopolies and there are some markets of "monopolistic competition". The demand-supply issue is very different here.
I've decided to carry on Economics to A2.
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makesomenoise
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#53
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#53
(Original post by *reasoning*)
I've decided to carry on Economics to A2.
So you should, I find it very interesting. But I might not even finish the course if this coursework ain't done, it's a whole module, yikes!
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Zapsta
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#54
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#54
Illegally downloading is a victimless crime. Until I enter the industry of course. Then it will be bad, bad, BAD!
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Alaric
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#55
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#55
(Original post by rahaydenuk)
Oh come on. Have you never heard of intellectual property? You can't justify your theft by arguing that there's no such thing as IP. A large amount of the modern economy relies on IP.
Oh please.
Theft? This isn't theft, theft is defined in English law as: "a person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Sure it's illegal - I'm not going to argue with that, it's a copyright infringement to download copies of music you don't have the permissions to copy - but people aren't necessarily removing anything tangible from the recording company/artist, as their sale couldn't be guaranteed they aren't losing money and they aren't losing the ability to earn money.

It's true a lot of the economy of this country now relies on IP, probably more so than ever, but the cartel needs to take a look at a more sensible approach than that of the RIAA's. Such as the software industry, where copyright infringement is just as easy and the products on the whole more expensive. They've had to face a large amount of copyright infringement, and they tried to deal with it in a technical manner (keys, registrations, dongles etc) which have all been breakable. What is different in the software industry is that it's fiercely competitive, if only between one or two main parties that share the majority of the market, this means there's been a continual push for further improvements and refinements that have perpetuated the market amongst legitimate buyers. They've taken a pragmatic approach in targetting copyright infringement severely and widespreadly in business but largely ignored the private population as they aren't usually taking anything significant from them or making a profit from the illegal copying. Despite the 'dot-com bubble bursting', which was expected considering it was just hype, the software industry is still very strong despite this pragmatic approach.
On the contrary, the recording industries are essentially a cartel, the products are in general fairly over-priced (in my opinion) and they are not interested in innovation and creating better products. They aren't pushing new methods of music delivery or new features - discs of music videos in full 5.1 DD sound anyone? They aren't pushing themselves and a lot of the music is the same mindless crap over and over again. Album sales are increasing, they make more sense, but the singles market is an antiquated one that needs radical rethinking for it to stay alive.

Times change, consumers change, they have to change with them:
"The BPI is convinced that entire musical genres will then disappear, and that record companies will have to focus their resources on a small number of commercially successful artists and drop others."
Spells out exactly what's wrong with their approach, they aren't promoting the diversification of their listeners, all they want is a few high selling artists.

If that means they need some way of increasing the quality of their album lines and doing something about the singles lines, then perhaps they ought to, because wide spread litigation isn't going to work very well.

Alaric.
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Ollie
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#56
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#56
If the album sales are going up (!) then I think if they are making a loss they must be paying the artists too much. Reduce their pay packet and firstly you get rid of the artists who are in there to make a million and don't care about the music, and the record companies make a profit.

I mean Robbie Williams £50m?! How do they expect to get that back. If they are paying artists that much to sing, they should stop sueing us and sort that out.
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username9816
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#57
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#57
(Original post by calumc)
So it's okay for me to record half a million songs from the radio or TV, but if I download one mp3 I'm a criminal? Oh right, I can see the logic in that.:rolleyes:
The Law isn't completely logical; it has flaws.
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TheWolf
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#58
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#58
(Original post by *reasoning*)
If consumer demand fell then they would have to lower prices.

I don't see why the demand/supply model wouldn't be representative in this case.
bono i agree with you there it definitely applies to the current situation
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username9816
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Ollie)
If the album sales are going up (!) then I think if they are making a loss they must be paying the artists too much. Reduce their pay packet and firstly you get rid of the artists who are in there to make a million and don't care about the music, and the record companies make a profit.

I mean Robbie Williams £50m?! How do they expect to get that back. If they are paying artists that much to sing, they should stop sueing us and sort that out.
Good point Oliver.
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username9816
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#60
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#60
(Original post by TheWolf)
bono i agree with you there it definitely applies to the current situation
The competition is substantial enough to force firms to monitor and adjust the price level of the goods they sell, dependant on the current consumer demand.

I wouldn't say the music industry is common ground for perfect competition, hence the model isn't to perfection for the given market either. However, it does illustrate the basic dilemma that firms do face.
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