Assasinations Watch

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#21
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#21
(Original post by Vienna95)
no no no..the israelis tried the peace process...it didnt work, the attacks keep coming, Hamas is unrelenting. the peace process was a stall by the PA and now Israel has correctly decided to protect itself the best way possible. israel is assassinating leaders of a terrorist group that cannot be replaced, this will only reduce the israeli death count if anything..how can more israelis die through Sharons current policies?
the policies of sharon at the moment are going to cause increased resentment amongst the arabs and so there will be more people wanting to become terrorists. while there is this cause there is are always going to be israeli deaths.

they might not attack in israeli, it might be an embassy somewhere but as the saying goes "while there is a will, there is a way" (i hope ive got that right)

and why do you say that "leaders....that cannot be replaced" surely he can easily be replaced
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Howard
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Speciez99)
i dont think so personally as one is voluntary and the other is enforced they are two totally different things. if you didnt agree with the british army policy you wouldnt join the army would you to start with surely? or join doing something else? these students dont have that option and since israeli is a democarcy then there surely should that choice
Yes, but isn't a democracy in the same way Britain is.

Israel is surrounded by hostile nations that would love to wipe it off the face of the planet, and so really can't afford the luxury of a softly softly western european democracy.

That's why military participation isn't a choice in Israel.
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Howard)
Yes, but isn't a democracy in the same way Britain is.

Israel is surrounded by hostile nations that would love to wipe it off the face of the planet, and so really can't afford the luxury of a softly softly western european democracy.

That's why military participation isn't a choice in Israel.
given that vienna has already told us....
(Original post by Vienna95)
the IDF has one of the highest application rates in the military world. in short, israel men and women are queing up to serve in the IDF.
this arguement seems flawed, either shes wrong or u are. if are so many people queing up then they dont need to enforce it.
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Howard
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Speciez99)
given that vienna has already told us....

this arguement seems flawed, either shes wrong or u are. if are so many people queing up then they dont need to enforce it.
I'm afraid I don't know much about Israel's military recruitment statistics. Bit too obscure an area of study for me.

But that's besides the point. If you live in a country that is surrounded by hostile nations that would erradicate your entire population given half a chance then it seems reasonable that the laws of your country might make military service/defence compulsary.
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Howard)
I'm afraid I don't know much about Israel's military recruitment statistics. Bit too obscure an area of study for me.

But that's besides the point. If you live in a country that is surrounded by hostile nations that would erradicate your entire population given half a chance then it seems reasonable that the laws of your country might make military service/defence compulsary.
lol bit to obscure for me too. totally agree that makes sense but i still think they should be able to do an alternative task to military service as it immoral to force people to do something they dont want to do in a democracy.
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Howard
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Speciez99)
lol bit to obscure for me too. totally agree that makes sense but i still think they should be able to do an alternative task to military service as it immoral to force people to do something they dont want to do in a democracy.
Well fair enough but I maintain that there are democracies and there are democracies!
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Vienna
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Speciez99)
the policies of sharon at the moment are going to cause increased resentment amongst the arabs and so there will be more people wanting to become terrorists. while there is this cause there is are always going to be israeli deaths.
when are people going to get it. THERE ARE MUSLIMS/ARABS/WHOEVER QUEUEING UP TO ATTACK ISRAEL, they just cant train and arm them fast enough. the terrorism is because they are israeli and they exist, it makes jack **** about what policy u take. that is the whole problem, policies of the UK, the US or anyone else does not make them go away. read the words of Hamas, of Al-Qaeda or any other group..they are not after political gain. ppl like Yassin train and encourage society to commit and regroup these willing men and boys to strap explosive to themselves a become a martyr. Sharon can see this, he wants out. he wants to weaken Hamas and then pull Israel out of Gaza and the West Bank. this is what they wanted, yet they still attack.

they might not attack in israeli, it might be an embassy somewhere but as the saying goes "while there is a will, there is a way" (i hope ive got that right)

and why do you say that "leaders....that cannot be replaced" surely he can easily be replaced
Yassin was a massive figure. he will not be easily replaced at all.
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Vienna
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Speciez99)
given that vienna has already told us....

this arguement seems flawed, either shes wrong or u are. if are so many people queing up then they dont need to enforce it.
hardly. miltary service is required for a year or so and then after that u are free to rejoin the army proper. many iSraelis stay on after their national service.
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Vienna95)
hardly. miltary service is required for a year or so and then after that u are free to rejoin the army proper. many iSraelis stay on after their national service.
if military service is so popular as you first suggested in terms of recruitement why do they need to conscript everyone for a year?
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Howard
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#30
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#30
(Original post by vienna95)
hardly. miltary service is required for a year or so and then after that u are free to rejoin the army proper. many iSraelis stay on after their national service.
Many Israelis are forced to if what an old friend told me is true. He served 2 years national service (I'm going back a few years) as a Lieutenant.

He was looking forward to comnpleting his term but about 2 weeks before he was due to finish a senior officer called him in and said: (and this is honestly what he told me)

"Uri (that was his name) we're giving you a choice. We'd like you to stay on for another year with promotion to Captain. Of course you don't have to but if you decide not to you know I can pull strings to make you stay on for another 2 years.......bumped down to Private don't you"

He got the message and stayed on.

Now I can't vouch that this is true but this is what he told me. (And I'm going back 10 years too)
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zazy
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#31
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#31
I have a total objective view towards this topic, but i what i know is that this is a circular argument, if palestinian's kill isrealis and they in turn kill palestinian's who's going to win???
Another issue is the fact that 7-12 yr old defenceless children are losing their lives...what about them?Are they terrorists when directly attacked?
What do you want these people to do?vanish from the face of earth?
They need a home a place to live, but where??
Are you going to provide it?
It's a case of what came 1st the chicken or the egg?
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Vienna95)
when are people going to get it. THERE ARE MUSLIMS/ARABS/WHOEVER QUEUEING UP TO ATTACK ISRAEL, they just cant train and arm them fast enough. the terrorism is because they are israeli and they exist, it makes jack **** about what policy u take. that is the whole problem, policies of the UK, the US or anyone else does not make them go away. read the words of Hamas, of Al-Qaeda or any other group..they are not after political gain. ppl like Yassin train and encourage society to commit and regroup these willing men and boys to strap explosive to themselves a become a martyr. Sharon can see this, he wants out. he wants to weaken Hamas and then pull Israel out of Gaza and the West Bank. this is what they wanted, yet they still attack.
wow whats with the capitals! there will always be terrorist groups agreed, however they will not always have popular support, the assination only increased their support because it justifys their message to their followers and increases the support. It gives the terror group a grievence to use as a tool to increase their support. This is why the current israeli policy will not work
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Vienna95)
Yassin was a massive figure. he will not be easily replaced at all.
you have changed from "cannot be replaced" to "will not be easily", its like listening to Tony Blair talk about WMDs
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Apollo
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#34
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#34
i dont give a ****e why he was killed, anyone who founds huge terrorist groups that kill countless innocent civilains, or anyone for that matter deserve whatever's coming to them.
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Jonatan
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Thunder)
Was the assasination of yassin bad because it was intrisincally bad to kill him ( no links to terror, cripple, unarmed) or becuase the consequences of his assasination outweigh the security gains , if any?
To all of you who seem to sugest that the assasination will spawn more hatred by Hamas coudl please explain exactly how Hamas could hate Jews any MORE? I mean, they have already published in their agenda that they want to exterminate all jews, so unless they are to kill everyone TWICE I cant really see how they are to become more hostile towards Jews and Israelis.
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Vienna
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Speciez99)
wow whats with the capitals! there will always be terrorist groups agreed, however they will not always have popular support, the assination only increased their support because it justifys their message to their followers and increases the support. It gives the terror group a grievence to use as a tool to increase their support. This is why the current israeli policy will not work

Hamas was not popular? or did not have support?!
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Vienna
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Speciez99)
you have changed from "cannot be replaced" to "will not be easily", its like listening to Tony Blair talk about WMDs
he can be replaced as a leader, but cannot be replaced as a figurehead for the group. whats the problem? its hardly a critical point..
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Vienna
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Jonatan)
To all of you who seem to sugest that the assasination will spawn more hatred by Hamas coudl please explain exactly how Hamas could hate Jews any MORE? I mean, they have already published in their agenda that they want to exterminate all jews, so unless they are to kill everyone TWICE I cant really see how they are to become more hostile towards Jews and Israelis.
exactly...
its like saying Al-Qaeda hates the UK more because we support the US. a very ignorant and dangerous idea...
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Vienna95)
Hamas was not popular? or did not have support?!
Hamas will now have more support
(Original post by Jonatan)
To all of you who seem to sugest that the assasination will spawn more hatred by Hamas coudl please explain exactly how Hamas could hate Jews any MORE? I mean, they have already published in their agenda that they want to exterminate all jews, so unless they are to kill everyone TWICE I cant really see how they are to become more hostile towards Jews and Israelis.
of course Hamas is trying to do everything it can to kill israelis at the moment, but with this assination their cause will become more popular with the palestinian people and foreign backers meaning Hamas will have increased resources and a stronger message.
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Vienna
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Speciez99)
i dont think so personally as one is voluntary and the other is enforced they are two totally different things. if you didnt agree with the british army policy you wouldnt join the army would you to start with surely? or join doing something else? these students dont have that option and since israeli is a democarcy then there surely should that choice
jeez, obviously i meant assuming i had joined the army i would be obligated to carry out orders. and national service a) has nothing to do with a successful democracy b) a great number of western and democractic states employ national service.

personally, i would consider introducing it in the UK..
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