Complete Beginner, strength training

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Machines are great for when you're a beginner, use free weights when you're a bit more used to what your muscles can handle

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Reply 21

Faulks94

Oh and about protein shakes, not necessary unless you are going to the gym 3 or more times a week in my opinion and even then it's better just to have a chicken sandwich when you get home...

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Reply 22

Converse Rocker

Original post by NB_ide

Wow, how many accounts does Rippetoe have on TSR?

Considering the atrocious results displayed by 90% of SS aficionados it's amazing how reliably and strongly it's suggested. So strange.

Atrocious results in regard to strength or atrocious results in regard to size/aesthetics/looks? :smile:

Reply 23

Magician

Original post by Occams Chainsaw

Haha. I am just about to get into lifting myself so was unsure. The advice is sound, though!

However, I think I prefer having cardio on the same day as the workout.

eg.

I do something along the lines of:

Mon
SS A
20 min run
Pressups
Squat/lunge

Wed
SS B
HIIT

Fri
SS A
bodyweight circuit

Sun
Swim/hike

SS being starting strength, alternating between ABA and BAB. I did try basically what you recommended but with SS but find it less tiring to do cardio and weights on the same day, for some reason.

I'm not sure whether I actually like SS much. I did consider moving to SL because I like the 5x5.

With that amount of cardio, you'll need to eat like Michael phelps for any gains

Reply 24

NB_ide

Original post by Converse Rocker

Atrocious results in regard to strength or atrocious results in regard to size/aesthetics/looks? :smile:

Inevitable and expected results in strength, which are as it happens atrocious (most people plateau at about the same point and then basically never get any stronger) and simply awful in terms of aesthetics. I propose that precisely equivalent "strength" gains and far superior improvements in aesthetics can be had by training in other ways.

At the very least, if people are determined to do SS or something similar then I do hope they IMMEDIATELY switch to something else once they genuinely stall. People keep hammering away for months and years expecting more strength gains but they will never come.

Reply 25

Nvmthename

Cable machines can be better in certain circumstances for tension on the muscle and starting with a machine for shoulder work is a lot safer; only situations I use(d) machines.

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Reply 26

Converse Rocker

Original post by NB_ide

Fair enough. I agree that some people do come off it looking terrible, but others don't: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=923892 These are presumably the people that have the sense to recognise when they are getting too fat, perhaps better genetics, perhaps better diet, I can't say for sure. Probably a combination of all 3.

Edit: In response to your last point, is that the fault of the programme? It is designed to take advantage of rapid noob gains in strength, if people continue to hammer away after that, isn't that their fault and not the fault of a book/routine?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 27

NB_ide

Original post by Converse Rocker

Edit: In response to your last point, is that the fault of the programme? It is designed to take advantage of rapid noob gains in strength, if people continue to hammer away after that, isn't that their fault and not the fault of a book/routine?

Yea, it's their fault in the end. Though we could blame external pressures as well, perhaps. I wasted years, years banging my head against the wall because I was too much of a pussy to do what I knew was right for me instead of what a bunch of obese PLers and armchair going-to-start-lifting-soon kids kept insisting I should do. That's because I had a weak mind, essentially - but it's bad for them to mislead people.

WRT to rapid noob gains, I think they come anyway regardless of how someone trains. Within reason - as in, with any popular and establish approach to lifting (so excluding the millions of possible routines that are just bizarre and completely stupid). Low-rep, high-% lifting with very few exercises suits some body types extremely well, and others very poorly - people respond to it very differently. In the end what gets someone strongest the fastest is whatever they respond to the best, whether that's 3 x 12 once per week with 20 different lifts, or 1 x 5 thrice per week and only three lifts.

SS is a bit extreme really, it's something of an over-reaction to routines that are way too far in the other direction.

Reply 28

Converse Rocker

Original post by NB_ide

Low-rep, high-% lifting with very few exercises suits some body types extremely well, and others very poorly - people respond to it very differently. In the end what gets someone strongest the fastest is whatever they respond to the best, whether that's 3 x 12 once per week with 20 different lifts, or 1 x 5 thrice per week and only three lifts.

Repped your post mate. Thought this bit was interesting, although if you spend too much time trying to find the 'perfect' routine for you, you can end up with routine ADHD and not actually go anywhere (exactly what I did for probably about 2 years)

At the end of the day, I'm on something very close to SS and enjoying it. If your goal is strength in the big 3, it'll work. Other things work too, like you said. I feel like I have started it with my eyes open though, unlike some people who start it expecting to look like a Men's Physique competitor by the end.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 29

NB_ide

Original post by Converse Rocker

Repped your post mate. Thought this bit was interesting, although if you spend too much time trying to find the 'perfect' routine for you, you can end up with routine ADHD and not actually go anywhere (exactly what I did for probably about 2 years)

Yea, if you're making gains but keep changing things around that's a waste of time, one does need to build up momentum for a while. Equally, if you're not making gains and not trying something different then you're gonna have a bad time. I guess some people are too far in the "keep changing everything" direction and some are too far towards the "stick with the same thing no matter what" side of things. It takes some time and experience for most of us to learn what needs to be done and when what needs to be changed, and when it doesn't.

Reply 30

User990473

I have something like this most days: Breakfast: eggs, wholemeal toast, fruit, porridge, green tea. Mid-morning: Weight gain shake. Lunch: Sandwich/Pasta (meat and salad), hand-full of nuts and a piece of fruit. Pre-workout: Weight gain shake. Dinner:rice/past/potatoes, meat, 2 portions of veg. Pre-bed: banana and peanut butter sandwich with a glass of milk.

Weight gain shake = oats, whey protein, a banana, peanut butter, meal replacement[extra 500 cals] and milk.

Erm, swimming and hiking I alternate between weeks. I hike in the brecon beacons and swim at a local pool

Reply 31

DaveyJ343

EXACTLY this, don't do 3x12 hypertrophy workouts, do this, and you will get stronger and bigger.

SQUAT DEADLIFT BENCHPRESS PULLUP

If your gym doesn't let you do these go to a different gym :smile: