The Simple Reason Why Gay Marriage Is Rejected by the Church Watch

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TheReligion
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#21
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#21
(Original post by MuniE)
Personally I don't understand that, I am atheist. But I have learned from previous threads not to talk about religion in depth because I offend too many people
Nope let me hear what you have to say, however offensive it may be. I'm sure I can offer some counter argument.
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TheReligion
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#22
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#22
(Original post by SasunD)
you don't get my point. how kan you condmen yourslef, becuase you condemn homosexuals, when you have given up your sexualtiy. hence, if you were homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual or an alien, it doesn't make any difference, because after you become a priest you have given up your sexualty, or at least, you are meant to.
Good question. But I'm sorry it just cannot be allowed that one who condemns something actually supports it. You do know that you are held responsible for your thought. So if a priest is homosexual, he will have homosexual thoughts as he is a human, not God. Therefore he has sinned by having such thoughts.
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hitchhiker_13
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#23
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(Original post by TheReligion)
Good question. But I'm sorry it just cannot be allowed that one who condemns something actually supports it. You do know that you are held responsible for your thought. So if a priest is homosexual, he will have homosexual thoughts as he is a human, not God. Therefore he has sinned by having such thoughts.

But as you said, he is human, not God. All humans sin.
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TheReligion
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(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
What kind of sermons do you listen to? I have never heard anything of that sort. Anyway, presumably if the man is a priest, he considers homosexuality to be sinful, and therefore himself to be sinful. Priests often admit their own failings in a sermon.

Also, if you want MuniE to understand you feel you have a responsibility to uphold God's laws, you must appreciate that he doesn't share your beliefs and feels equally passionately that gay people are not sinful, and deserve equal opportunities, in the Church as well as everywhere else.
Priests and all Christians admit wrong doing. But you must understand that as a Christian, once you have identified you fault you MUST correct it otherwise you run the risk of loosing your relationship with God.
I understand that Munie doesn't share my beliefs, I'm only telling him of mine which come from God not myself, thats the difference.
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MuniE
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#25
(Original post by TheReligion)
Priests and all Christians admit wrong doing. But you must understand that as a Christian, once you have identified you fault you MUST correct it otherwise you run the risk of loosing your relationship with God.
I understand that Munie doesn't share my beliefs, I'm only telling him of mine which come from God not myself, thats the difference.
They are not from god though, they are written by humans, in fact written by many different humans at different times. The book they are written in mentions nothing of the million years before man and is manipulated by religious people to suit their needs. They take parts of it at face value then argue that others must be interpreted to be fully understood.
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TheReligion
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#26
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#26
(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
But as you said, he is human, not God. All humans sin.
Yes, then we ask for forgiveness. After that our promise is to try not to relapse. So you can see why it would be wrong for the priest to continue living in sin. If he knows he will continue to possess his thoughts, then he will not ask for forgiveness and therefore gives up his blessing to serve God.
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hitchhiker_13
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#27
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#27
(Original post by TheReligion)
Priests and all Christians admit wrong doing. But you must understand that as a Christian, once you have identified you fault you MUST correct it otherwise you run the risk of loosing your relationship with God.
I understand that Munie doesn't share my beliefs, I'm only telling him of mine which come from God not myself, thats the difference.

Are you Catholic? I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church accepts that some people have "homosexual tendencies" or whatever you would like to call them, but shouldn't act on them.
How can you say that it is their fault that they are gay? That is just your opinion. Scientific opinion may not agree. Of course, if the act on it, it is certainly under their own volition. So if they don't act on it, maybe that it is all they can reasonably expected to do.
In the passage you quoted from the Bible, it mentions "men who have sexual relations with other men", not men who are gay but do not sleep with other men.
So if they don't sleep with other men, what have they done wrong?


Then you must also understand that MuniE may not share your belief in God, and may believe that you have no greater authority behind you than he does. You must show respect for his differing beliefs and engage in proper debate, not just repeated dogma.
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TheReligion
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#28
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#28
(Original post by MuniE)
They are not from god though, they are written by humans, in fact written by many different humans at different times. The book they are written in mentions nothing of the million years before man and is manipulated by religious people to suit their needs. They take parts of it at face value then argue that others must be interpreted to be fully understood.
You see, a huge part of being a christian is faith. My belief is that God gave those who wrote the books of the bible, the inspiration to do so. And because God is all powerful, he would never allow 'HIS OWN WORD' to be manipulated by man.
I can understand what it's like to be on the other side because I once was there and let me tell you, of all the things you will experience on Gods great earth no feeling is greater than being close with God. You may laugh as many will do, but I only hope that one day you will at least understand.
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TheReligion
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#29
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#29
(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
Are you Catholic? I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church accepts that some people have "homosexual tendencies" or whatever you would like to call them, but shouldn't act on them.
How can you say that it is their fault that they are gay? That is just your opinion. Scientific opinion may not agree. Of course, if the act on it, it is certainly under their own volition. So if they don't act on it, maybe that it is all they can reasonably expected to do.
In the passage you quoted from the Bible, it mentions "men who have sexual relations with other men", not men who are gay but do not sleep with other men.
So if they don't sleep with other men, what have they done wrong?


Then you must also understand that MuniE may not share your belief in God, and may believe that you have no greater authority behind you than he does. You must show respect for his differing beliefs and engage in proper debate, not just repeated dogma.
Firstly I am not Catholic, I am from the Pentecostal church, and it does not conform to societies idealogies.
I was watching the christian channel one day and there was this man who used to be gay before he came to know god. What he did was ask that God would help him to stop sinning, and today he has a wife and children. About the psychological thing, my personal belief is that it is just an excuse really. Of course is someones mind is impaired or different, no individual can rightly condemn their thoughts, but God made us to love women not men.
The quote from that Bible is what it is. Look if you are gay then you will live with the temptation of wanting another man all your life, therefore in effect you are sinning by having impure thought about another man.
It's like someone thinking in their mind that they want to kill but they wouldn't actually do it. They have sinned by having evil thoughts, haven't they?
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purplerain
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#30
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Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, she holds homosexuality as an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the internet........

Dear Dr.Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate . I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring mations. A friend of mine claimed that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the alter of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room there?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting 2 different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of 2 different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,

'~'~'~'~'Finvola '~'~'~'~
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TheReligion
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#31
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#31
(Original post by purplerain)
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, she holds homosexuality as an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the internet........

Dear Dr.Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate . I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring mations. A friend of mine claimed that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the alter of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room there?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting 2 different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of 2 different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,

'~'~'~'~'Finvola '~'~'~'~
That was the old testament. The Jews live by it because they are still awaiting the coming of the messiah, who I know as Jesus.
Despite this, Jews will go to heaven as they are Gods special people and he made them a promise.
You ever wondered why a nation so small survived the 50 years War, and faught Wars with such technique that would put the 'superpowers to shame'. Not that War is a good thing.
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MuniE
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#32
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#32
(Original post by purplerain)
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, she holds homosexuality as an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the internet........

Dear Dr.Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate . I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring mations. A friend of mine claimed that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the alter of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room there?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting 2 different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of 2 different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,

'~'~'~'~'Finvola '~'~'~'~
I nominate this as the best post ever, here have some rep !
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MuniE
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#33
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#33
(Original post by TheReligion)
That was the old testament. The Jews live by it because they are still awaiting the coming of the messiah, who I know as Jesus.
Despite this, Jews will go to heaven as they are Gods special people and he made them a promise.
You ever wondered why a nation so small survived the 50 years War, and faught Wars with such technique that would put the 'superpowers to shame'. Not that War is a good thing.
If the jewish people are special and have been promised things by god why were they slaughtered by the millions in the holocaust? where was god to protect his choosen ones? And the reason Isreal has survived so long is the United States, without it they would be so far up shits creek without a paddle that it wouldn't be funny.
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TheReligion
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#34
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#34
(Original post by MuniE)
If the jewish people are special and have been promised things by god why were they slaughtered by the millions in the holocaust? where was god to protect his choosen ones? And the reason Isreal has survived so long is the United States, without it they would be so far up shits creek without a paddle that it wouldn't be funny.
If only you knew the true power of God.
God created humans, and thankfully he allowed us to make our own decisions. Our decisions and actions may have direct impacts upon others. God would have his own reasons for what happened. To be honest I don't know because I am not God.
Did Israel not beat Egypt without the help of USA troops, they also won many other battles.
It said in the Bible that like all people the Jewish people were stubborn, and they show that even today. But God will always look after them, of course he's not going to fire bolts of lightning at any country which chooses to attack them, instead he may send the help of other countries. I'll tell you this now, the Palestines will never defeat Israel, with or without the help of the Allies.
During the 50 years War did Israel not gain vast areas of land, witout the help of the USA?
Don't you find it intriguing that as small as Israel is they always manage to rise on top? i am not a Jew myself for the record.
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#35
(Original post by TheReligion)
If only you knew the true power of God.
God created humans, and thankfully he allowed us to make our own decisions. Our decisions and actions may have direct impacts upon others. God would have his own reasons for what happened. To be honest I don't know because I am not God.
Did Israel not beat Egypt without the help of USA troops, they also won many other battles.
It said in the Bible that like all people the Jewish people were stubborn, and they show that even today. But God will always look after them, of course he's not going to fire bolts of lightning at any country which chooses to attack them, instead he may send the help of other countries. I'll tell you this now, the Palestines will never defeat Israel, with or without the help of the Allies.
During the 50 years War did Israel not gain vast areas of land, witout the help of the USA?
Don't you find it intriguing that as small as Israel is they always manage to rise on top? i am not a Jew myself for the record.
Without the US isreal would not even exist, and I knew you were going to say the thing about god giving us the power to make our own decisions, typical comeback from a religious person. Because without that comeback there is no way to explain how god could allow all the horrible things in the world to take place. But then this comeback logically leads me to saying that religion is made by humans to provide answers to the fundamental questions of existence and that its main purpose is to comfort people and tell them that they have meaning. If this god of yours is so powerful how can he let the people that are created in his image die and fight for him and all the other gods that were created by man.
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TheReligion
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#36
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#36
(Original post by MuniE)
Without the US isreal would not even exist, and I knew you were going to say the thing about god giving us the power to make our own decisions, typical comeback from a religious person. Because without that comeback there is no way to explain how god could allow all the horrible things in the world to take place. But then this comeback logically leads me to saying that religion is made by humans to provide answers to the fundamental questions of existence and that its main purpose is to comfort people and tell them that they have meaning. If this god of yours is so powerful how can he let the people that are created in his image die and fight for him and all the other gods that were created by man.
Sorry I do not understand final question, can you make it a bit clearer please?
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MuniE
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(Original post by TheReligion)
Sorry I do not understand final question, can you make it a bit clearer please?
I am just saying that if we are created in the image of god and he loves us why does he let us fight in his name and kill millions for his benefit. If god was this all powerful figure why wouldn't he intervine for the sake of humanity and goodness. Of cource you will say that he doesn't because he gave us the ability to choose our own path and that life is a test but then why would he just create us for the sake of testing us, what does he gain from this?
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TheReligion
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#38
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#38
(Original post by MuniE)
I am just saying that if we are created in the image of god and he loves us why does he let us fight in his name and kill millions for his benefit. If god was this all powerful figure why wouldn't he intervine for the sake of humanity and goodness. Of cource you will say that he doesn't because he gave us the ability to choose our own path and that life is a test but then why would he just create us for the sake of testing us, what does he gain from this?
Now that is a question I can't answer, and I am awaiting the answer of, just the wy did he create us for.
Well God is God, woudn't it be nice to share the beauty of heaven with others. But you'd probably ask why we didn't all go to heaven in the first place, but I don'r really know.
There are gaps in my knowledge but with time and experience I hope to fill them.
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Apollo
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#39
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(Original post by TheReligion)
You do know you are just trying to twist the bible. What I said could not be more crystal clear.
Gays may not be harming physically or whatever, but their lifestyle has become so prevalent and is beginning to affect religion, which it shouldn't.
You people know what is right, do you ever wonder why humans have a conscience? God gave it to us, not Darwin. And I very much know that somewhere deep within your hearts, you know that homosexuality is wrong but you ONLY defend it when the church attacks it, yes? This is because many people are simply afraid of the truth so they'll join any group who oppose it.
Don't tell me what i know, i have nothing wrong with gays at all.
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#40
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#40
(Original post by TheReligion)
If only you knew the true power of God.
God created humans, and thankfully he allowed us to make our own decisions. Our decisions and actions may have direct impacts upon others. God would have his own reasons for what happened. To be honest I don't know because I am not God.
Did Israel not beat Egypt without the help of USA troops, they also won many other battles.
It said in the Bible that like all people the Jewish people were stubborn, and they show that even today. But God will always look after them, of course he's not going to fire bolts of lightning at any country which chooses to attack them, instead he may send the help of other countries. I'll tell you this now, the Palestines will never defeat Israel, with or without the help of the Allies.
During the 50 years War did Israel not gain vast areas of land, witout the help of the USA?
Don't you find it intriguing that as small as Israel is they always manage to rise on top? i am not a Jew myself for the record.
I am, for the record.
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