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Sami_ThePeelite
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Hey, i've been pondering over the issue of the seeming black culture and culture as a whole and how it is interpreted as a completely different entity and that particularly how black people are black in behaviour and disposition.


but isn't black/white etc... just the colour pigmentation of your skin? why is it that there is a black 'sense of being' but not a white? seemingly everyone's disposition is dependant on their personality rather than colour of skin -

why is there such a focus on rap and hip-hip music being connotated as black music? isn't it just a type of music which all can enjoy, after all rock music derives from the early southern jazz guitarists of the 20s/30s


i think that , intrinsicaly, culture specifically allocated to a certain skin colour group, race, gender and religion is wrong - that culture is everyone's to enjoy and as the human race we can claim it as our own no matter what as we all are anscestors of the same group of primates, that people who talk of 'differing cultures' and 'how different theirs is from mine' is detramental to the complete acceptance of all cultures as a single entity



- sorry for my incessant rambling but i think too much in my head and needed to get it out

thanks for reading
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MuniE
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(Original post by Sami_ThePeelite)
Hey, i've been pondering over the issue of the seeming black culture and culture as a whole and how it is interpreted as a completely different entity and that particularly how black people are black in behaviour and disposition.


but isn't black/white etc... just the colour pigmentation of your skin? why is it that there is a black 'sense of being' but not a white? seemingly everyone's disposition is dependant on their personality rather than colour of skin -

why is there such a focus on rap and hip-hip music being connotated as black music? isn't it just a type of music which all can enjoy, after all rock music derives from the early southern jazz guitarists of the 20s/30s


i think that , intrinsicaly, culture specifically allocated to a certain skin colour group, race, gender and religion is wrong - that culture is everyone's to enjoy and as the human race we can claim it as our own no matter what as we all are anscestors of the same group of primates, that people who talk of 'differing cultures' and 'how different theirs is from mine' is detramental to the complete acceptance of all cultures as a single entity



- sorry for my incessant rambling but i think too much in my head and needed to get it out

thanks for reading
First off, rap sucks. The whole rap and hip hop culture is degrading our society. Secondly, the only reason people associate colour with culture is because some groups don't like the same things as others. Its not really anything to do with colour but more about where the people come from and what they were raised with.
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MuniE
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(Original post by piginapoke)
Because rap and hip-hop is produced by a lot more black artists than any other race artists. Nobody [sensible] is saying other races can't enjoy it.



Culture is not defined by skin colour or whatever; its typified by it.

Why is it not ok to talk of differing cultures? Cultures are different after all.
I agree with you 100%. This idea of a global culture is impossible, you culture is defined by where you come from and in what environment you were raised.
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Sami_ThePeelite
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heh whether rap music is bad or not (which it is) isn't the key to the answer


well because i think by assuming that cultures are different insinuates that differing nationalities or race or religion etc.... are different and that we are not the same at all.....when we supposedly are in a modern age where as humans we share an endemic culture rather than a group of different ones containing 'different people'

you can see the obbsession with culture throughout the world now - look at the french banning headscarfs in schools- obbsessed with trying to preserve the natural culture of french society and that the French culture is superlative to the Muslim one and thus the Muslim one has to submit to the French,


culture shouldn't be a segregated issue - we should have one culture and one culture only,


i knew of an american guy who decendants were Irish and he went back to Ireland talking of his familial and inherent culture , going on about it - isn't it everyone's inherent culture rather than just his because he's an eighth irish?
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MuniE
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(Original post by Sami_ThePeelite)
heh whether rap music is bad or not (which it is) isn't the key to the answer


well because i think by assuming that cultures are different insinuates that differing nationalities or race or religion etc.... are different and that we are not the same at all.....when we supposedly are in a modern age where as humans we share an endemic culture rather than a group of different ones containing 'different people'

you can see the obbsession with culture throughout the world now - look at the french banning headscarfs in schools- obbsessed with trying to preserve the natural culture of french society and that the French culture is superlative to the Muslim one and thus the Muslim one has to submit to the French,


culture shouldn't be a segregated issue - we should have one culture and one culture only,


i knew of an american guy who decendants were Irish and he went back to Ireland talking of his familial and inherent culture , going on about it - isn't it everyone's inherent culture rather than just his because he's an eighth irish?
Thats just connecting with the past, my great great grandparents were Irish and if i went and explored where they grew up Im sure I would feel a connection to that place, however this is different. I think it is wrong of you to cite the french example , a better one is UAE or Kuwait. In these countries they deport you if you are not arab because they want the country to keep the same culture and genetic make up. If they do that in their own countries they are lucky to be even allowed to go to france and should not complain that they have to join mainstream society when they come to another country. And when I say that cultures are different that is not based on colour, culture is based on where you are from, your socio-economic up bringing and you own beliefs. The sad fact of the matter is that some cultures are more civil then others and this leads to conflicts sucj as the east vs west one were are in right now
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Sami_ThePeelite
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The French aren't preserving their 'culture' by doing this - it would be preserved even if they were allowed to wear headscarfs in school,

in Britain students are permitted to wear headscarfs - our society and 'culture' hasn't come crumbling down lol

i think history would be a better word than culture - our history is more specific and more relavent ...than 'culture'


(taking your word for it that UAE and Kuwait do do this, as i have been to Dubai a number of times and westerners do in fact live there) well then it's their fault for being so ignorant of the fact that other people might endanger their 'culture' and besides, not all arabs in france are from UAE or Kuwait - as a responsible and advanced nation, France are indeed getting it wrong,


there is only a west/east divide because we made it so - through our obsession with culture - the western culture/the middle eastern culture - it's a bit depressing really...
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MuniE
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(Original post by Sami_ThePeelite)
The French aren't preserving their 'culture' by doing this - it would be preserved even if they were allowed to wear headscarfs in school,

in Britain students are permitted to wear headscarfs - our society and 'culture' hasn't come crumbling down lol

i think history would be a better word than culture - our history is more specific and more relavent ...than 'culture'


(taking your word for it that UAE and Kuwait do do this, as i have been to Dubai a number of times and westerners do in fact live there) well then it's their fault for being so ignorant of the fact that other people might endanger their 'culture' and besides, not all arabs in france are from UAE or Kuwait - as a responsible and advanced nation, France are indeed getting it wrong,


there is only a west/east divide because we made it so - through our obsession with culture - the western culture/the middle eastern culture - it's a bit depressing really...
ya to clarify westerners live there and work there but at my school there is a large indian community who are brown and were deported from these countrues because they are not arabs. I am not sure what the official policy is but these are first hand experiences I have been told, i could have the county names wrong too, ya never know lol
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Aeris
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Hi. I'm not an expert on the subject or anything, but I think that a look at American history would provide an answer to some of the questions here. In early America "blackness" was given to African-Americans as a negative and repulsive title. They didn't ask for it. The black "sense of being" was pushed on African-Americans so they would know their place in society. All they did was make it a positive thing. After blacks were free, a lot of them had no choice but to live in ghettos and try to work their way up through the system. So music played on the block, or the streetcorner, or from somebody's home was a means of escape. Rap came from black America. I think it's amusing that while it was ridiculed at first by white people now it's cool. And don't believe that popular rap themes like money and hoes are the only things that people ever rap about anymore. Those are just the things that make it to Mtv. They're most popular to hear about.

Whiteness is something that we study year-round in school. White history, white society, white politics. Come on, give me a break. However I do think that learning about diverse white cultures Italian, Irish, German could be something different, well for me anyway.

And rap isn't only done by blacks now. It's caught on internationally. (I hope I can figure out how to make a link.)
http://www.120seconds.com/features/0...21_5sides.html

P.S. sorry if this post is sloppy. i'm in a rush.
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MuniE
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(Original post by ArisGreenleaf)
Hi. I'm not an expert on the subject or anything, but I think that a look at American history would provide an answer to some of the questions here. In early America "blackness" was given to African-Americans as a negative and repulsive title. They didn't ask for it. The black "sense of being" was pushed on African-Americans so they would know their place in society. All they did was make it a positive thing. After blacks were free, a lot of them had no choice but to live in ghettos and try to work their way up through the system. So music played on the block, or the streetcorner, or from somebody's home was a means of escape. Rap came from black America. I think it's amusing that while it was ridiculed at first by white people now it's cool. And don't believe that popular rap themes like money and hoes are the only things that people ever rap about anymore. Those are just the things that make it to Mtv. They're most popular to hear about.

Whiteness is something that we study year-round in school. White history, white society, white politics. Come on, give me a break. However I do think that learning about diverse white cultures Italian, Irish, German could be something different, well for me anyway.

And rap isn't only done by blacks now. It's caught on internationally. (I hope I can figure out how to make a link.)
http://www.120seconds.com/features/0...21_5sides.html

P.S. sorry if this post is sloppy. i'm in a rush.
Ya we learn about white culture because thats where most recorded history is in recent ages. As well, when there is black history month we don't learn anything, we had some ****ty drumb crew come play african beats. Is it just me or could they not have done something useful instead of bringing in entertainers/
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warren
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What is wrong with MuniE?
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Howard
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(Original post by Sami_ThePeelite)
heh whether rap music is bad or not (which it is) isn't the key to the answer


well because i think by assuming that cultures are different insinuates that differing nationalities or race or religion etc.... are different and that we are not the same at all.....when we supposedly are in a modern age where as humans we share an endemic culture rather than a group of different ones containing 'different people'

you can see the obbsession with culture throughout the world now - look at the french banning headscarfs in schools- obbsessed with trying to preserve the natural culture of french society and that the French culture is superlative to the Muslim one and thus the Muslim one has to submit to the French,


culture shouldn't be a segregated issue - we should have one culture and one culture only,


i knew of an american guy who decendants were Irish and he went back to Ireland talking of his familial and inherent culture , going on about it - isn't it everyone's inherent culture rather than just his because he's an eighth irish?
I don't know what you're talking about here.

You say "..........i think by assuming that cultures are different insinuates that differing nationalities or race or religion etc.... are different and that we are not the same at all....."

Well, of course we're all different! This is not a question of insinuation. It's a question of fact. Black culture is different from white culture which is different from middle eastern culture which is different from oriental culture etc.

I also think the importance of preserving individual cultures cannot be overemphasized. You mention (predictably) the French headscarf ban. You don't mention the enormous lengths the French go to in preserving their language which is obviously a big part of their culture. Do you think the French are wrong for trying to maintain their language?

What about the Welsh? Are they wrong for encouraging the use of the Welsh language amongst their people? That's just one example of attempts at cultural preservation. Good thing too if you ask me.

We are not all the same and it's about time people woke up to that fact, grew up a bit, and recognized it. What a ****ty dull world it would be if we were all the same!
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Little Britain
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(Original post by ArisGreenleaf)
Hi. I'm not an expert on the subject or anything, but I think that a look at American history would provide an answer to some of the questions here. In early America "blackness" was given to African-Americans as a negative and repulsive title. They didn't ask for it. The black "sense of being" was pushed on African-Americans so they would know their place in society. All they did was make it a positive thing. After blacks were free, a lot of them had no choice but to live in ghettos and try to work their way up through the system. So music played on the block, or the streetcorner, or from somebody's home was a means of escape. Rap came from black America. I think it's amusing that while it was ridiculed at first by white people now it's cool. And don't believe that popular rap themes like money and hoes are the only things that people ever rap about anymore. Those are just the things that make it to Mtv. They're most popular to hear about.

Whiteness is something that we study year-round in school. White history, white society, white politics. Come on, give me a break. However I do think that learning about diverse white cultures Italian, Irish, German could be something different, well for me anyway.

And rap isn't only done by blacks now. It's caught on internationally. (I hope I can figure out how to make a link.)
http://www.120seconds.com/features/0...21_5sides.html

P.S. sorry if this post is sloppy. i'm in a rush.
American "culture" amuses me, why is it that every American I have sopen to are either African-American, Irish-American or Italian-American. You never hear and English person saying that they are Anglo-Saxon English.

I'm sorry to take the piss out of Americans but whoever invented country music should be shot! (Is this a racist statement)?
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Howard
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(Original post by Little Britain)
American "culture" amuses me, why is it that every American I have sopen to are either African-American, Irish-American or Italian-American. You never hear and English person saying that they are Anglo-Saxon English.

I'm sorry to take the piss out of Americans but whoever invented country music should be shot! (Is this a racist statement)?
Double-barreled Americans. I know what you mean. Especially when the links to the second country are tenuous at best.

I am one quarter kraut on my moms side but I don't go around telling everyone I'm English-German (even though my Grandaddy was actually born in Dresden)

Why then must Americans announce themselves as Irish-American when the last person in their family to have set foot in the country did so in 1840 and since then the blood lines have been so much further diluted by international marriage as to make such claims irrelevant.

There are tons of Americans who are about 1/64th Irish and who's only exposure to Ireland is an occasional visit to "O'Briens Irish Bar" where they sit around pretending to enjoy Guinness when really they'd be much happier with a Miller light.

I guess it's all about "belonging" We all have a need to belong. But I'll never understand it as America itself has a culture as vibrant, and interesting as any place on earth. It should be enough to be "Proud to be an American" rather than pretending to be Irish.
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Little Britain
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(Original post by piginapoke)
I have often wondered about this. My addled brain has reached the conclusion that it must be because Ireland and the Irish are seen to be inoffensive, uncontroversial and have a relatively rose-smelling history; who wants to claim they have English, German, Eastern European or whatever roots when that's just either not very interesting or perhaps controversial in some way. Its the same with Australians. My moosus (Irish-Australian :rolleyes: ) is always harping on about how great Ireland is and her Irish roots. Can't say I've ever heard an Aussie trumpeting their English roots; but have heard Wales and Scotland being used as an identity. Somehow some countries are a bit of an embarassment when it comes to admitting your roots are there. Weird.
Irish = innofensive, that's a laugh. Americans just don't have a clue what the hell they are talking about. In almost every Irish bar in America there is a collecting tin for NORAID, because as far as the Yanks see it, the Irish are freedom fighters, fighting for the cause.

My Brother-in-Law moved to Aus when he was 4 - he is now in his 20's, he supports England in Football and Rugby and is actually very proud of his English roots.
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Aeris
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(Original post by Little Britain)
American "culture" amuses me, why is it that every American I have sopen to are either African-American, Irish-American or Italian-American. You never hear and English person saying that they are Anglo-Saxon English.

I'm sorry to take the piss out of Americans but whoever invented country music should be shot! (Is this a racist statement)?


Hmm....well I would say that we could easily just call ourselves American. So what? The reason behind someone saying they're Irish-American is to show their family history. All Americans came from somewhere else except the natives (like my great-grandmother on my father's side).

You're not the first one who's said this sort of thing to me. My brother had a white professor who was from Africa who said, "I'm African-American. Why do black people in America think they should be called the same when they've never even visited the country?" I'd say it's our choice, and always will be. I could say white people forced themselves into Africa, and treated the natives their terribly, so they don't have the right to be called African. I could say that blacks were stolen from their home land and forced to be American, but will always acknowledge their ancestry.

But in the end, we all originated from Africa, so let's all call ourselves African!! NO? Don't want to? Didn't think so.
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Howard
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(Original post by ArisGreenleaf)
But in the end, we all originated from Africa, so let's all call ourselves African!!!!!! NO? Don't want to? Didn't think so.
Or so we're told to believe.
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Howard
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(Original post by piginapoke)
You don't believe it?
Not saying I don't. But I'm not convinced of it either. Up until fairly recently scientists thought the oldest "human" was x years old. Then they discovered they were completely wrong and the oldest "human" was a hell of a lot older.

Science hasn't proven the origins of man by a long chalk.

Besides, everyone knows that God was an Englishman (and a protestant to boot), that life started in England, and the English are his chosen people.
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Howard
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(Original post by piginapoke)
Its true that our origins are a little fuzzy, but its highly unlikely that there's going to be some evidence unearthed that completely blows us out of the water. All that's happening in that field if anything is that the earliest date of 'humans' as we know it being on earth is being pushed back continually, but there's not a lot to suggest that humans evolved outside of Africa.
We'll see.
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