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    (Original post by PhilipsCDRW)
    What do you all think of the EU, and British membership of it?


    The EU has always been moving towards federalisation, and has been continuously drawing power to itself. Britain finds itself in a minority of one for pushing for a co-operative establishment where countries will agree on what is good for the community as a whole. The rest of Europe wants an organisation that will have the authority to keep its members in line through subordination. So we have always been slowing the rest of the EU down, trying to go one way while the rest of the EU goes another.

    I think that as the EU gets more centralised it will fail, and Britain should either stay in to slow it down and buy more time for the rest of Europe to remain free, or get out now to prepare to rebuild Europe after the crash.
    I think the EU is good, it will centralize power and create a unified europe. I don't see how federalisation is a bad thing, and it won't crash as long as the countries follow the guidelines set down by the councils and administrators
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    (Original post by MuniE)
    I think the EU is good, it will centralize power
    how is that good?
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    It's good for trade and the economy. But they shouldn't throw politics into the mix.
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    (Original post by PhilipsCDRW)
    What do you all think of the EU, and British membership of it?
    The EU has always been moving towards federalisation, and has been continuously drawing power to itself.
    I disagree with this - the aim is not a 'united sates of Europe'. Even if it were, the enlargement this year of the EU will take the EU back in terms of heading 'ever closer union'. If it's hard to make 15 countries agree, try making 25! This especially true as these countries will not want to surrender their sovereignty after being under USSR dominance, and consider the US an important force.
    I think Britain can only benefit in the long term from the Eu - we no longer have an empire, we are no longer a superpower, and I don't believe we can stand alone.
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    (Original post by Aylia)
    I disagree with this - the aim is not a 'united sates of Europe'.
    er, have you heard the French and Germans recently? of course this is the aim...

    Even if it were, the enlargement this year of the EU will take the EU back in terms of heading 'ever closer union'. If it's hard to make 15 countries agree, try making 25! This especially true as these countries will not want to surrender their sovereignty after being under USSR dominance, and consider the US an important force.
    which is why the French are pissed and of course a federal europe is doomed.

    I think Britain can only benefit in the long term from the Eu - we no longer have an empire, we are no longer a superpower, and I don't believe we can stand alone.
    we stand with the US and Europe..not as part of a federal EU superstate.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    er, have you heard the French and Germans recently? of course this is the aim...



    which is why the French are pissed and of course a federal europe is doomed.



    we stand with the US and Europe..not as part of a federal EU superstate.
    *sigh* yes, maybe, but it's not going to happen! But as you say, with the new candidate countries joining there is no hope of a federal Europe for a long time yet, so it really doesn't matter if thats what they want. And if federal Europe is doomed.. there will be no superstate, we cant be part of a superstate that cant exist. Do you truly believe that a country with the power of the US needs us? no. at least with the EU we have a chance to change and influence the decisions made.
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    The impression I get is that we would be giving away control unnecessarily, after all, don't we outperform Europe on just about any economic indicator? Our policies serve us well, and we don't need the meddling of a centralised power to hold us back.
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    (Original post by Aylia)
    *sigh* yes, maybe, but it's not going to happen!
    dont sigh at me, you said it wasnt the aim! i was correcting you.
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    (Original post by PhilipsCDRW)
    What do you all think of the EU, and British membership of it?


    The EU has always been moving towards federalisation, and has been continuously drawing power to itself. Britain finds itself in a minority of one for pushing for a co-operative establishment where countries will agree on what is good for the community as a whole. The rest of Europe wants an organisation that will have the authority to keep its members in line through subordination. So we have always been slowing the rest of the EU down, trying to go one way while the rest of the EU goes another.

    I think that as the EU gets more centralised it will fail, and Britain should either stay in to slow it down and buy more time for the rest of Europe to remain free, or get out now to prepare to rebuild Europe after the crash.
    The main problem with the EU today is teh protectionism of the member countries. Sweden woant let Baltic residents get work permissions. France got through a law that all cucumbre must be bent by a certain angle (causing Swedish farmers to have to leave their crops to rot) and now France and Germany want to reduce the power of smaller countries so they can gain more controll. If the EU is to function as one single federal state then countries must COOPERATE. Unfortunately this is not the aim of France and Germany, which ratehr wants to exploit the new members.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    dont sigh at me, you said it wasnt the aim! i was correcting you.

    ok sorry

    Edit : you just reminded me of someone I know..
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Unfortunately this is not the aim of France and Germany, which ratehr wants to exploit the new members.
    It seems so blatantly hypocritical when they force all the lowly states to adhere to extremely tight policy, then immediately abandon all the rules when they get into a tight spot themselves. Nevermind, as you mentioned all the underhand methods they'll use to implement protectionism for their own farmers/producers.
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    I want the EU as much as I want Aids virus.
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    (Original post by Daveo)
    I want the EU as much as I want Aids virus.
    And what is it about the EU that you dislike so much?
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    And what is it about the EU that you dislike so much?
    The fact that it is Europe and NOT Britain. I don't want to be Eurish i'm British and thats the way I want it to stay, I also don't want the Euro - I like being governed by ourselves not some tosser in Brussels, its bad enough as it is.
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    I think the EU is a bit silly somehow..
    Some members of the EU aren't geographically in Europe!!!!!! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by zazy)
    I think the EU is a bit silly somehow..
    Some members of the EU aren't geographically in Europe!!!!!! :rolleyes:
    All the members of the EU are geographically in Europe, though many of them belong to eastern Europe. Also, some countries willing to join are on teh broders between Europe and Asia (thinking about Turkey). Also, technically I dont really mind if a country in the EU is not geographically in Europe, this is not really a problem when you think about it. What I am concerned about, however, is that the so called Economic cooperation is more about protectionism and negotiation than an evaluation of what is good for Europe as a whole.

    Also, I just do not beleive that the socialistic governments of Germany , France and now also Spain are going to be happy to alow a free migration of workers and living standards between teh richer and poorer of Europes countries. The only way Europe can work as a federal state , and at the same time keep the living standards in the western areas higher than those of the eastern would be through segregation or discrimination against countries which have a weaker economical position.
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    France and Germany both have central right governments not socialist governments.

    Also in response to an earlier post, it doesn't help the debate when people bring in incorrect facts about bent cucumbers and even call Europe a federation.
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    I dislike the idea. Just how much government can you need? And really folks, that's what "Europe" is all about.........just an experiment in creating the biggest government the world has ever known.

    And when I ask what the exact benefits of membership of this monster club are I'm really unable to answer myself.
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    (Original post by house badger)
    France and Germany both have central right governments not socialist governments.

    Also in response to an earlier post, it doesn't help the debate when people bring in incorrect facts about bent cucumbers and even call Europe a federation.
    I don't know about that. In Germany socialist laws make the cost of employing people among the highest in Europe, which is one of the fundamental flaws with their economy. In France the left-wing trade unions are ridiculously powerful (as us poor Brits often find out at airports and crossing the channel!) moreover the left-wing CAP which makes prices very high and subsidises inefficiency is most strongly supported by France.

    Actually, you will find the cucumber law is EU directive 1677/88, so isn't an incorrect fact, its the truth. Apologies for not posting a link only I dont currently have one but I'm sure you can find it
 
 
 
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