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How important are college refrences in oxbridge applications?
like the title suggest, do college references play a more than major part in whether you receive a place or an interview
the problem i'm facing is that i've got good references from my other subjects a-level (Economics, Accounting, Physics, Biology) and just an average reference from Maths
i'm thinking of applying to do Economics so is the above a major problem?
also, i've heard that you can choose to decline references....... is this true?
the problem i'm facing is that i've got good references from my other subjects a-level (Economics, Accounting, Physics, Biology) and just an average reference from Maths
i'm thinking of applying to do Economics so is the above a major problem?
also, i've heard that you can choose to decline references....... is this true?
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Ahmed2526
like the title suggest, do college references play a more than major part in whether you receive a place or an interview
the problem i'm facing is that i've got good references from my other subjects a-level (Economics, Accounting, Physics, Biology) and just an average reference from Maths
i'm thinking of applying to do Economics so is the above a major problem?
also, i've heard that you can choose to decline references....... is this true?
the problem i'm facing is that i've got good references from my other subjects a-level (Economics, Accounting, Physics, Biology) and just an average reference from Maths
i'm thinking of applying to do Economics so is the above a major problem?
also, i've heard that you can choose to decline references....... is this true?
I don't know about declining references... some people don't get to see theirs. But your reference is considered alongside the rest of your application. I was told by an admissions tutor that he almost expects one sub-average element (see list below) for each application, but more than one severely damages the applicant's chances.
1.
Interview
2.
Submitted written work
3.
Written test
4.
Grades
5.
Reference
6.
Personal statement
On the other hand, I believe that tutors at Oxbridge are big on mathmatical ability as a prerequisite to study an economics course. However, it depends on what was said in your reference, and if you could show mathematical ability another way (such as grades, UMS marks or a written test).
Definately do not be discouraged from applying
You can't decline a reference because it has to be a part of your UCAS form. Personally I'd say references were reasonably important, especially as maths is quite closely related to economics, but they'll obviously look at your grades and personal statement as well and you should get an interview. I think the main things they're looking for from references are good attendance and punctuality and a good work ethic.
Can you decline a reference?? You aren't meant to see them! Only if you pay to see your UCAS form after application - that is shocking behaviour from your school!
Answer - for Oxbridge, it is not so important, because they interview and test candidates themselves, so they can make their own minds up. Cambirdge in particular (which is the one that does straight economics) interview nearly all applicants, so you can prove the referee wrong!
Answer - for Oxbridge, it is not so important, because they interview and test candidates themselves, so they can make their own minds up. Cambirdge in particular (which is the one that does straight economics) interview nearly all applicants, so you can prove the referee wrong!
Yeah, I was allowed to see mine and was asked by both my tutor and my head of sixth form if I was happy with it and if there was anything I wanted changed or added! It was only because I applied to Cambridge though, I don't think I'd normally have been given the chance to do that.
Wow. No disrespect to anyone here but I find that ludicrous. I think there is an excellent reason to stop people seeing their references, because they put pressure (or are offered!) to change them, which totally undermines their whole purpose.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
there isn't any pressure on people to change references, perhaps there would be in some cases but its just understood that they're done and you can see them to read but iv never known any one put any pressure on people, most references are good anyway and say the required things and those that aren't so good often belong to people who don't bother to read them anyway.
You cannot prevent people from seeing any information you hold about them. That would be totally unethical. You cannot make your tutor change your reference. Having seen your reference does not alter the fact that you know who is writing it and could bribe/bully them so it makes no difference, you would see it in the end anyway.You can insist on having someone else write your reference, but you would probably have to give a reason why it would be appropriate for that to happen eg in my school the year tutors wrote everyone's, but some people applying to top unis for subjects they were doing at A-level had their subject teachers write it because they could talk about what they did over and above the A-level in that subject. Obviously if you were not applying to top unis and were going to get a C in the subject there would be no reason to do this because your grade would reflect your ability.
kizer
Wow. No disrespect to anyone here but I find that ludicrous. I think there is an excellent reason to stop people seeing their references, because they put pressure (or are offered!) to change them, which totally undermines their whole purpose.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
Well then your school is in breach of the Data Protection Act. If someone wants to see their reference they have a legal right to.
I don't think he meant it like that. I think he meant that at his school there is no question of someone seeing their reference before it is sent to universities. It is the same at my school, and I agree, it is absolutely ridiculous that some schools let students see them before they send them off.
I was told by a teacher at my school that universities take into account the 'reliability' of the school involved when judging references, however, which is probably why my school has the policy it has - sends lots of people to Oxbridge, so Oxbridge are familiar with it and so it has an interest in keeping the reputation of the school good in their eyes by giving honest references. Oxbridge obviously cannot know every school in the country, so if a school has not had much of an Oxbridge history then they can get away with that sort of thing.
And I am probably wrong, knowing nothing really about law, but wouldn't it be under the Freedom of Information Act rather than the Data Protection Act? I'm going on nothing but common sense here, which, given the workings of the legal system, is why I'm probably wrong.
I was told by a teacher at my school that universities take into account the 'reliability' of the school involved when judging references, however, which is probably why my school has the policy it has - sends lots of people to Oxbridge, so Oxbridge are familiar with it and so it has an interest in keeping the reputation of the school good in their eyes by giving honest references. Oxbridge obviously cannot know every school in the country, so if a school has not had much of an Oxbridge history then they can get away with that sort of thing.
And I am probably wrong, knowing nothing really about law, but wouldn't it be under the Freedom of Information Act rather than the Data Protection Act? I'm going on nothing but common sense here, which, given the workings of the legal system, is why I'm probably wrong.
The point of it is is that the teachers know very little about what oxford and cambridge want. They are part of the application process, not part of the admissions process, and in the interests of fairness thats how it should stay. Like any part of their application, the applicant should be happy with their reference. If you weren't happy with an exam grade, you would resit and apply the following year. Its the same principle. The teachers are supposed to give you the best reference they (truthfully) can. And if it was simply over-hyped sweeping statements, it would have little substance to it, and would easily be seen through, no matter how glowing.
Yes I have to agree this is very true.. my school is the best in the business for getting people to Oxbridge so they certainly know what to put in references.
Still, I still think it is wrong for a student to have any involvement in the reference, and therefore there is no need to see it before you apply - you can get it off UCAS later if you really want.
Still, I still think it is wrong for a student to have any involvement in the reference, and therefore there is no need to see it before you apply - you can get it off UCAS later if you really want.
kizer
Wow. No disrespect to anyone here but I find that ludicrous. I think there is an excellent reason to stop people seeing their references, because they put pressure (or are offered!) to change them, which totally undermines their whole purpose.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
At my school references are a completely closed issue - you just don't see them, period.
Many thanks to the anonymous prat with loads of repping power who negged me for this with no comment. Care to explain yourself?
First point: I can't think of any way to justify having people write their own references, which are supposed to be an objective opinion on their work. Clearly Oxbridge aren't idiots, and they'll know which schools regularly send pupils to Oxbridge and take it into account - the answer isn't to make the reference an extension of the personal statement.
Second point: it's just rude. Besides it only took me 30 seconds to write that, useful time for procrastination purposes. And not that it was a sentence, but I sincerely hope you weren't accusing me of 'envy and hypocrisy'.
Second point: it's just rude. Besides it only took me 30 seconds to write that, useful time for procrastination purposes. And not that it was a sentence, but I sincerely hope you weren't accusing me of 'envy and hypocrisy'.
I don't know of many schools that actually let pupils change their reference in any great detail. At my school, the only reason we read our references is to check for any innacuracies or things they may have left out. It's just easier for us to check them than the person who has written them.
I doubt any school lets people just completely rewrite their reference to make a deliquent student sound like the next head boy.
I doubt any school lets people just completely rewrite their reference to make a deliquent student sound like the next head boy.
Ditto from above... you all seem to be missing the key point; that writing a reference collating all your acheivements and subjects in school is quite a difficult exercise, and particularly when your referee has many to do, they are liable to make factual errors...
For example, my referee made an error in the first line of my reference, saying I'd been at the school quite a bit longer than I had.
For example, my referee made an error in the first line of my reference, saying I'd been at the school quite a bit longer than I had.
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