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When is an attack a terrorist attack?

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Original post by VeniViciVidi
Well, they'd still be labelled a terrorist. Firstly, because they are a non-state actor. Secondly, they are targeting the population, not the government apparatus.

Well, they'd be labeled as terrorists by the people being attacked, the people who agree with them on the other hand would probably feel justified in calling them freedom fighters, even though they are using terrorist tactics.

Do you think that a state can never be considered a terrorist?
Original post by incipientT
Well, they'd be labeled as terrorists by the people being attacked, the people who agree with them on the other hand would probably feel justified in calling them freedom fighters, even though they are using terrorist tactics.

Do you think that a state can never be considered a terrorist?


Definitely, have you seen the opening scenes of Munich? When the members of Black September successfully capture the Israeli athletes, there is a stark contrast in the reactions between the two nationalities. The people living in Palestinian territories are seen to be cheering while the people in Israel are seen to be weeping and concerned. But if we're making the debate on terrorism as objective as possible, it should be measurable. That means a subjective interpretation need not be required and what we do is measure it against the tactics. And the tactics in this case are the target-set: Are the people targeted part of the government apparatus, involved directly in policy-formulation or part of the nation's security apparatus?

As for state's being terrorists themselves, in my view, they can't. This is mainly derived from the internationally recognized definition of terrorism that Bruce Hoffman asserts, that is, one of the prerequisites for a terrorist is that they are a non-state actor. This mainly stems from that states possess a monopoly of force and they are the only actors able to use it. That doesn't mean that states can use force unconditionally without consequence but it distinguishes themselves from being a terrorist.
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Definitely, have you seen the opening scenes of Munich? When the members of Black September successfully capture the Israeli athletes, there is a stark contrast in the reactions between the two nationalities. The people living in Palestinian territories are seen to be cheering while the people in Israel are seen to be weeping and concerned. But if we're making the debate on terrorism as objective as possible, it should be measurable. That means a subjective interpretation need not be required and what we do is measure it against the tactics. And the tactics in this case are the target-set: Are the people targeted part of the government apparatus, involved directly in policy-formulation or part of the nation's security apparatus?

As for state's being terrorists themselves, in my view, they can't. This is mainly derived from the internationally recognized definition of terrorism that Bruce Hoffman asserts, that is, one of the prerequisites for a terrorist is that they are a non-state actor. This mainly stems from that states possess a monopoly of force and they are the only actors able to use it. That doesn't mean that states can use force unconditionally without consequence but it distinguishes themselves from being a terrorist.

I haven't seen it, but I can well imagine.

Couldn't they fit both labels simultaneously? According to my dictionary:
freedom fighternoun
a person who takes part in a violent struggle to achieve a political goal, esp. in order to overthrow their government.

I don't see anything incompatible with terrorist tactics there...

I see what you mean there, but it seems like a bit of a technicality. If a state is using terrorist tactics, I feel they should be considered the same.
Original post by incipientT
I haven't seen it, but I can well imagine.

Couldn't they fit both labels simultaneously? According to my dictionary:

I don't see anything incompatible with terrorist tactics there...

I see what you mean there, but it seems like a bit of a technicality. If a state is using terrorist tactics, I feel they should be considered the same.


The thing about dictionary definitions is that they offer the most simplistic definition to satisfy all readers. But, even in that definition, while it is true, does not take into account the fear-strategy that terrorism, by necessity, brings.

For example, whilst it is a violent struggle to overthrow a government, it does not include a target-set. A freedom-fighter could overthrow a government through a prolonged insurgency that renders the government immobile, without targeting civilians in the process. Likewise, a terrorist may have the same objective to overthrow a government, but what distinguishes a freedom fighter and a terrorist is their methodology. Their goals maybe the same, but their means are different.

I can understand how you come to the conclusion that states can be terrorists. However, I think it's an important distinction. The abuse of power by states (that intentionally kill civilians, non-combatants) is a war crime. A war crime, to me, is more serious because typically states have more resources to commit these acts. Secondly, they have the geography to plan such attacks. Thirdly, it tarnishes the nation who are uninvolved in the decision-making process in committing these acts.

That's why I find it hard to sweep terrorism to state and non-state actors. There is a greater danger when a state partakes in these indiscriminate acts as opposed to a fringe minority.
Reply 64
Original post by GR3YFOXXX
What exactly does "six of one and half a dozen of the other" mean with regards to Bloody Sunday?


It means that both sides were in the wrong, as far as we can tell.
Lmao they don't just call Muslim attacks terrorist ones. Any attack which is deemed to be "waging war" on the country is essentially a terrorist attack. IRA ones have definitely been referred to as terrorist attacks in the past. Also members of the now defunct Tamil Tigers were arrested under the terrorism act in the UK.

Obviously American school shootings are not classed as terrorist attacks as it's not directly aimed at the government, the political system e.t.c.
Original post by VeniViciVidi
The thing about dictionary definitions is that they offer the most simplistic definition to satisfy all readers. But, even in that definition, while it is true, does not take into account the fear-strategy that terrorism, by necessity, brings.

For example, whilst it is a violent struggle to overthrow a government, it does not include a target-set. A freedom-fighter could overthrow a government through a prolonged insurgency that renders the government immobile, without targeting civilians in the process. Likewise, a terrorist may have the same objective to overthrow a government, but what distinguishes a freedom fighter and a terrorist is their methodology. Their goals maybe the same, but their means are different.

I can understand how you come to the conclusion that states can be terrorists. However, I think it's an important distinction. The abuse of power by states (that intentionally kill civilians, non-combatants) is a war crime. A war crime, to me, is more serious because typically states have more resources to commit these acts. Secondly, they have the geography to plan such attacks. Thirdly, it tarnishes the nation who are uninvolved in the decision-making process in committing these acts.

That's why I find it hard to sweep terrorism to state and non-state actors. There is a greater danger when a state partakes in these indiscriminate acts as opposed to a fringe minority.

What you say about dictionaries is often true, certainly it is in this case.

Do we actually have any kind of authoritative definition of what a freedom fighter is? To me, it seems to mean anyone who is fighting for freedom so could potentially include some terrorists. By this definition, some terrorists would just be terrorists, some freedom fighters would just be freedom fighters and some people would be both terrorists and freedom fighters.
I think these two terms are really classifying people based on two separate things one, the tactics used and two, the motivation.
Original post by Plainview
It means that both sides were in the wrong, as far as we can tell.


How were both sides in the wrong!? Saville found unequivocally that the British Army were at fault, David Cameron went so far as to apologise. Please don't talk nonsense about such a sensitive topic when you clearly haven't got a clue.
Reply 68
Original post by GR3YFOXXX
How were both sides in the wrong!? Saville found unequivocally that the British Army were at fault, David Cameron went so far as to apologise. Please don't talk nonsense about such a sensitive topic when you clearly haven't got a clue.


That's my opinion that the army were provoked by aggressive protestors. I don't care what David Cameron says he thinks. I'll express my opinion on any topic I wish, thanks.
Original post by Plainview
That's my opinion that the army were provoked by aggressive protestors. I don't care what David Cameron says he thinks. I'll express my opinion on any topic I wish, thanks.


Aggressive protesters...good job your "opinion" isn't worth the breath you've wasted on it. Your "opinion" happens to contradict the findings of an independent, internationally respected judge, following a 12 year, £200 million pound, public inquiry. Your opinion, is based on nothing more than a disgusting desire to justify the killing of 14 innocent people.
(edited 10 years ago)

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