University is a state-sponsored scam

Who in their right mind would pay £9,000 a year to attend some ex-poly and gain some pointless qualification that in most cases will hardly improve their job prospects at all?

All students are doing is loading themselves up with the burden of debt for the best part of their lives.

Frankly the current student fees have got to be one of the biggest ever government scams.

Most degrees do not cost £9,000 a year per student to teach. The universities are profiteering from the new fee structure in my opinion.

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Reply 1

Aj12

Given that quite a few jobs ask for a degree in any subject from any uni quite a few people are willing to spend that money especially since it is covered by a loan that many people won't fully pay back anyway. Hardly a state sponsored scam. That and believe it or not but there are people out there who study for enjoyment.....

Have to wonder OP what gives you the right to write off dozens of uni's and thousands of students.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2

TobaccoSmoke

Original post by Aj12

They might never fully pay it back, but it is 9% extra income tax for the rest of their working lives if they manage to get a job that pays more than £22,000 a year.

Furthermore, most graduate schemes that specify a degree in any subject are primarily looking for graduates from the top universities, not ex-polys.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 3

Strangey

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

Then don't go to an ex-poly and get yourself a decent qualification which will help your prospects in the future?

The harsh truth of the matter is that so many jobs need a degree these days that wouldn't have needed one 10-20 years ago. There's something like 45% of youngsters going to uni, and a load more going on to do apprenticeships - people need qualifications to get ahead these days!

Reply 4

TobaccoSmoke

Original post by Strangey

Then don't go to an ex-poly and get yourself a decent qualification which will help your prospects in the future?

My A Levels were too low to get into a decent university, yet I feel pressured to continue my current course at an ex-poly, despite the fact I feel it is a waste of time and a waste of money.

I think it is a scam that I am paying as much as a student at a Russell Group university, despite the fact that the worth of their degree in terms of employment opportunities is going to be far greater than mine.

You wouldn't pay as much for a Renault as you would for a Mercedes, so why does this not apply to university education?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 5

username878045

The thing is, if you get a degree with worse job prospects, you'll pay back less of the loan. The loan system is set up so that it's almost always beneficial to go to university.

Reply 6

username878045

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

But you won't be paying the same, because if you earn less, you pay less.

I'm starting to see why your grades were too low to go to a competitive university. :colone:

Reply 7

Aj12

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

The wages many graduates will achieve will make that 9% easily bearable. Fact is with a degree you're more likely to end up with a higher wage than without.

Apart from the top grad schemes in finance and IB I have not yet seen a single grad scheme specifying which university they want their graduates from. Again I have to ask why do you feel qualified to write off dozens of unis and thousands of students. Or are you just trying to provoke a reaction.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8

TobaccoSmoke

Original post by PythianLegume

But you won't be paying the same, because if you earn less, you pay less.

I'm starting to see why your grades were too low to go to a competitive university. :colone:

No you don't. If you earn above £22,000 a year you pay 9% extra income tax. The more you earn, obviously the quicker you pay it off, but the rate is still set at 9% regardless of salary above £22,000.

Reply 9

chelseafan

It's your own fault. You chose to go to a **** university. Now you feel bitter.

Reply 10

TobaccoSmoke

Original post by Aj12

The wages many graduates will achieve will make that 9% easily bearable. Fact is with a degree you're more likely to end up with a higher wage than without.

Most graduates will expect to be on the higher rate of tax. So that's 40%, add 9% Student Loan, add 11% national insurance.

Add all that together and you are potentially talking about an upper tax rate of 60%. You call that a good deal?

Reply 11

incipientT

Loads of jobs require a degree qualification before they'll consider you so, yes, going to uni can help you.

Reply 12

Aj12

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

If it's a choice between earning 20k a year or 60k then yeah I do.

Reply 13

username878045

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

But you're saying that going to a poly led to you having worse prospects, so lower wages than a top uni graduate. If you're earning £23k, then you'll pay an extra 9% on £1000, only £90 a year. If another graduate from a top uni is earning £32k, they'll pay 9% on £10,000, so will be paying £900 a year, ten times as much as you.

It's not a complex concept.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 14

TobaccoSmoke

I think that university fees should be set at their market value, rather than some artificial system where everyone pays the same.

In America the cost of degrees varies massively because their system recognises that a degree from one institution is worth more than one from another and thus the institutions set their fees in order to compete in the higher education market.

Reply 15

username878045

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

They are set at market value if they're worth less than £9k, but most aren't.

Reply 16

User182034

I do struggle with the idea of signing up for £9000 a year tuition fees. Especially considering I'll also have to take out the maintenance loan of over £3000 too. It's a lot of money to owe, even if you may not have to pay it all back. To have that behind you, knowing that if you earn enough you'll be paying it off for a number of years, is just another bill you have to factor in to the numerous bills you'll be dealing with throughout your every day life.

I think this is the reason I'm struggling so much with choosing a degree. I know this is my only chance to get a loan to cover the fees, so I have to try and make it worthwhile. But no one can predict which courses will actually be worthwhile throughout my adult life, because the nature of work and what employers want is changing so much. A lot of arts courses seem to me to be like paying £9000 a year to read a variety of books (this is the impression I get from having been to university once, and also reading specifications for courses I'm interested in). I just picture me sitting there thinking 'I'm paying £9000 a year to get knowledge from books, I could spend £9000 on books and get more out of it'.

Reply 17

TobaccoSmoke

Original post by chelseafan

It's your own fault. You chose to go to a **** university. Now you feel bitter.

Yes, I am bitter. I feel ripped off that I will be paying as much tax as someone from a high ranking university, despite the fact that it is quite possibly that their degree will mean they earn £10,000+ more than me.

I think the cost of a degree should factor in the average earnings of graduates from that course/university rather than based on the assumption that all degrees are equal in worth, which is blatantly not the case.

Reply 18

username878045

Original post by TobaccoSmoke

But if they earn £10k more than you, they'll pay considerably more tax than you. :rolleyes:

The cost of a degree already does take into account the earnings because of the way it is paid back. Stop thinking of it as an upfront cost, because it isn't.