Should we force graduates to return to their countries of origin after graduation? Watch

Катя
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#1
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A bit of context to the question - I was at a debating competition today and the following motion came up: This House would force graduates to return to their countries of origin for at least 5 years immediately after graduation.

What do you think?
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jaqenH'ghar
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surely graduates are educated and will work and give back to society :dontknow: a better question would be..should we force immigrants who don't work/study to go back to their countries (assuming their countries are not in turmoil)
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The_Internet
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Surely this would be damaging? I mean purely because of populism, we are driving away international students, who are paying higher fees than the rest of us.

Not to mention that graduates tend to immediately give back to the country. If any thing, international students are "better" in a sense ie: they don't cost the UK any money, they pay the UK more than home students, and then they pay taxes like the rest of us, so if any thing they're worse off
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FubbyTucker
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Absolutely. Why on earth would we want these educated, motivated and highly employable people here? I mean, just why?
More importantly Катя, what do you think?
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M. de Barthe
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I would hope they would anyway. It is simply a fact, that many of the countries with the highest migration rates to the UK for educational purposes, are now in dire need for their actual skills post-education. For them to stay here, supposing their home-nation is stable, should be a criminal offense after a certain time. We need to balance the worlds skills and make the world a batter place. The UK isn't a giant pit for everyone to 'jump in' and be free. We need to be wise.
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John Stuart Mill
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What are the arguments in favour of such a proposition?
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Theflyingbarney
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I can't see any good reason for forcing them to leave. The whole reason the country tends to shoulder the financial burden of allowing international students is so that they're more likely to get a job in the UK and provide a return on that investment. If you let students come in, study here, and then force them to leave, then you're not getting any return on that money paid out - doesn't make much sense to me.
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rickfloss
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no, but employers must not be allowed to pay em a lower salary then uk citizens
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Smack
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We already practically do. It's very difficult for international students to find a job in the UK as many companies can only accept applications from UK and EU nations, and they're not allowed a particularly long time here unemployed due to their visas.
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by de_monies)
Surely this would be damaging? I mean purely because of populism, we are driving away international students, who are paying higher fees than the rest of us.

Not to mention that graduates tend to immediately give back to the country. If any thing, international students are "better" in a sense ie: they don't cost the UK any money, they pay the UK more than home students, and then they pay taxes like the rest of us, so if any thing they're worse off
And they tend to splash out in our shops, especially the Chinese.
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The_Internet
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(Original post by rickfloss)
no, but employers must not be allowed to pay em a lower salary then uk citizens
I dont think this happens?
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rickfloss
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(Original post by Smack)
We already practically do. It's very difficult for international students to find a job in the UK as many companies can only accept applications from UK and EU nations, and they're not allowed a particularly long time here unemployed due to their visas.
they are mostly masters students

Masters students should not be allowed

they should have a UK undergrad and Masters to be allowed to work in uk

ie 4 years of paying full tution fees and subsidising uk students
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Катя
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(Original post by John Stuart Mill)
What are the arguments in favour of such a proposition?
Well, this is how my partner and I played it:

There is a massive development gap between the "hubs" of higher education (namely, the UK and the US) and, well, the rest of the world.

Pretty much every intelligent kid who isn't from such a country gets told when they're young that they "are talented enough to go to Oxford / Harvard / etc".

These universities are fully aware that they attract "the best and brightest", and often, international kids who get educated there usually stay there (or don't return to their home countries at least).

By forcing well-qualified and well-educated international graduates to return to their home countries for at least five years, we'd be helping to solve the global problem of inequality.

We were 2nd prop and, for reasons which are beyond me, we won.
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Ben Kenobi
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No, assuming they are legally staying in this country.
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Smack
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(Original post by rickfloss)
they are mostly masters students

Masters students should not be allowed

they should have a UK undergrad and Masters to be allowed to work in uk

ie 4 years of paying full tution fees and subsidising uk students
It is true that a lot of masters students, particularly in some subjects e.g. engineering, are foreign, there are still also a lot doing undergraduate degrees too.
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The_Internet
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(Original post by rickfloss)
they are mostly masters students

Masters students should not be allowed

they should have a UK undergrad and Masters to be allowed to work in uk

ie 4 years of paying full tution fees and subsidising uk students
Why? I'd rather have international students doing being the majority when it comes to masters degrees and PHD's, because it means that they come here, they can't get ANY support at all, have to do the course, keep our own fees "low"

Without international students, I'd imagine that our fees wouldn't be too dissimilar to the US
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-raisa
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(Original post by Катя)
Well, this is how my partner and I played it:

There is a massive development gap between the "hubs" of higher education (namely, the UK and the US) and, well, the rest of the world.

Pretty much every intelligent kid who isn't from such a country gets told when they're young that they "are talented enough to go to Oxford / Harvard / etc".

These universities are fully aware that they attract "the best and brightest", and often, international kids who get educated there usually stay there (or don't return to their home countries at least).

By forcing well-qualified and well-educated international graduates to return to their home countries for at least five years, we'd be helping to solve the global problem of inequality.

We were 2nd prop and, for reasons which are beyond me, we won.
That's not true – or at least not true in the UK. I'm currently an international student (from Canada) doing my undergrad here, and we have no choice but to return to our home country after we graduate because most employers won't sponsor work visas for non-EU students.

So although I'm sure loads of international students (like me!) would love to stay in the UK after we graduate, the reality is that most of us actually *do* return to our home country due to visa/immigration issues.
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CEKTOP
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(Original post by Катя)
Well, this is how my partner and I played it:

There is a massive development gap between the "hubs" of higher education (namely, the UK and the US) and, well, the rest of the world.

Pretty much every intelligent kid who isn't from such a country gets told when they're young that they "are talented enough to go to Oxford / Harvard / etc".

These universities are fully aware that they attract "the best and brightest", and often, international kids who get educated there usually stay there (or don't return to their home countries at least).

By forcing well-qualified and well-educated international graduates to return to their home countries for at least five years, we'd be helping to solve the global problem of inequality.

We were 2nd prop and, for reasons which are beyond me, we won.
You would end up ruining UK higher education system with most of these international students choosing the US as their destination of choice. The British system is heavily reliant on international students as they make it possible for the government to adequately support British universities and subsidising home/eu students.


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rickfloss
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(Original post by de_monies)
Why? I'd rather have international students doing being the majority when it comes to masters degrees and PHD's, because it means that they come here, they can't get ANY support at all, have to do the course, keep our own fees "low"

Without international students, I'd imagine that our fees wouldn't be too dissimilar to the US
im talking about the right to work

many students do uk courses to come here and then find a course

ie instead of paying a smuggler £5000, pay a uni £10,000, get a degree and get the right to stay

they should spend minimum of £50,000 on education in the uk to have the right to work here
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flatfishy
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most of the time yes. i say this because there are roughly 70 applicants for every single graduate job in britain.

the influx of so many foreign students is severely harming the job prospects of british graduates.
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