JohnPaul_
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I'm not going to talk about free will vs determinism. I am a determinist in case anyone wondered but I'm talking about consciousness. More of a poll and short explanation. Who thinks consciousness is constructed of physical things and then gives the illusion that it's non-physical? However, who thinks that consciousness cannot arise from non-conscious things?

So basically; Physicalism/Materialism vs Panpsychism?

I thought I'd ask this question because I recently had a chat with a Professor from Uni of Liverpool about this after his lecture. His name is Dr. Phillip Goff incase anyone wants to check out his papers.


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wilson_smith
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(Original post by JohnPaul_)
I'm not going to talk about free will vs determinism. I am a determinist in case anyone wondered but I'm talking about consciousness. More of a poll and short explanation. Who thinks consciousness is constructed of physical things and then gives the illusion that it's non-physical? However, who thinks that consciousness cannot arise from non-conscious things?

So basically; Physicalism/Materialism vs Panpsychism?

I thought I'd ask this question because I recently had a chat with a Professor from Uni of Liverpool about this after his lecture. His name is Dr. Phillip Goff incase anyone wants to check out his papers.


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Bit of a false dichotomy!

I withhold substantive opinion until someone makes non-trivial progress on the hard problems of consciousness (i.e. how subjective experience arises) -- the philosophy and science of consciousness is, as Nagel once said, at pre-Socratic levels.
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skunkboy
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Why don't you yourself experiment with the new way in order to know more about consciousness?
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KeepYourChinUp
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(Original post by JohnPaul_)
I'm not going to talk about free will vs determinism. I am a determinist in case anyone wondered but I'm talking about consciousness. More of a poll and short explanation. Who thinks consciousness is constructed of physical things and then gives the illusion that it's non-physical? However, who thinks that consciousness cannot arise from non-conscious things?

So basically; Physicalism/Materialism vs Panpsychism?

I thought I'd ask this question because I recently had a chat with a Professor from Uni of Liverpool about this after his lecture. His name is Dr. Phillip Goff incase anyone wants to check out his papers.
I highly doubt that conciousness is something which can be 'seen' or isolated within our brain. I think that conciousness is just a result of our DNA makeup and so if our DNA was different, prehaps we wouldn't have conciousness, or maybe we'd have a higher level of conciousness

Emotions, thoughts, morality ect are all possible because our DNA is constructed in such a way that conciousness arises. So can we give robots conciousness? Well yes, actually... if we create a hybrid biomechanical robot using human DNA I believe it would have conciousness.

The key to robots and conciousness is creating them such that they know right and wrong, but are not biased. An almost impossible task.

Some links for you to read

Christof Koch's "framework for consciousness"
http://codatest4.library.caltech.edu/26/1/438.pdf

Friston's "free energy principle":
http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v1...s/nrn2787.html
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Plantagenet Crown
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For me consciousness is purely metaphysical and non-material, however that doesn't mean it can't use matter as a vehicle.
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Patched
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(Original post by JohnPaul_)
I'm not going to talk about free will vs determinism. I am a determinist in case anyone wondered but I'm talking about consciousness. More of a poll and short explanation. Who thinks consciousness is constructed of physical things and then gives the illusion that it's non-physical? However, who thinks that consciousness cannot arise from non-conscious things?

So basically; Physicalism/Materialism vs Panpsychism?

I thought I'd ask this question because I recently had a chat with a Professor from Uni of Liverpool about this after his lecture. His name is Dr. Phillip Goff incase anyone wants to check out his papers.


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I don't know. I'd like to think that the conscience is metaphysical and still exists whether we are physically here or not, but I can't think of a purely logical reason for this. However I wouldn't say that this is Panpsychism.

I suppose it's feasible that certain areas of our brain give us what we call a conscience, but you could still argue that we have a metaphysical conscience which utilizes this within our body, and without it, our human conscience wouldn't exist.

I'm curious, what did Dr. Phillip Goff say about it? I'm Googling him but I can't really be bothered to look for an answer
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johnandrew
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hello

I am new here.

I am so pleased to find people interested in this!

I will post some thoughts on this soon.

Please take a look at my post on Penrose / quantum consciousness and my Wittgensteinian analogy for a context-dependent requirement(s) for post Newtonian word-usages.

(I hope my asking doesn't offend any TSR protocol, if it does I apologise.)

Thank you.
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cookiesandcream2
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Sometimes I don't know whether I'm asleep or awake
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JohnPaul_
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(Original post by Patched)
I don't know. I'd like to think that the conscience is metaphysical and still exists whether we are physically here or not, but I can't think of a purely logical reason for this. However I wouldn't say that this is Panpsychism.

I suppose it's feasible that certain areas of our brain give us what we call a conscience, but you could still argue that we have a metaphysical conscience which utilizes this within our body, and without it, our human conscience wouldn't exist.

I'm curious, what did Dr. Phillip Goff say about it? I'm Googling him but I can't really be bothered to look for an answer
Well what Dr. Phillip Goff basically believes is that Physicalism is the wrong way to look at things especially consciousness. I take the opposite end but we didn't chat for long so I didn't get all his views but when I see him next I will be sure to chat more about it.


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Sienne
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For me, I'm almost certain consciousness is a physical phenomenon. Not long ago I was more open to the idea of it being an immaterial substance but that really doesn't make sense to be because surely that implies consciousness itself isn't dependent on the brain. If I go up to someone and inject them with morphine, biological changes take place which will surely affect your brain and send you to sleep, thereby inhibiting consciousness. Consciousness can not be some brain-independent substance...

However, I am very open to panapsychism - the idea that somehow consciousness is just somehow fundamental to our very existence. Consciousness is incredibly hard to explain in purely physical terms...how do you explain the feeling of touching a smooth surface? What is it? Qualia is pretty damn hard to explain!

Hope there's more discussion on this thread, the problem of consciousness is probably my favourite philosophical riddle!
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Cashuina
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I think consciousness is basically just a way of deciding non instinctive decisions. It creates an illusion of being metaphysical as we can detect it happen. By like listening to ourselves... Basically I think it's the creation of some seriously clever biological ****....


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