UK unis fingerprinting foreign students to check attendance

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The point is that fingerprinting creates a division between non-EU and EU students with non-EU students being treated like criminals on parole, don't you see that? It's like the infamous whites only spaces in US buses a way back.

Except that the division is based on if you are required to attend a certain number of contact hours to meet your visa requirements or not. It is not being done based on race, sexuality, gender, age, it is being done so that the university can say "Yes, this person is meeting their requirements" - which is in the interest of the student as well as the university.

Reply 61

OMGWTFBBQ

Original post by CEKTOP

But there already IS a division between UK and International students. Internationals are affected by immigration procedures and are a visa risk. UK nationals are not.

Enforcing immigration controls isn't creating a division - the division is there already. Non nationals are not the same as nationals and protecting the border is only going to affect non-nationals. But so what?

Your US race comparison is irrelevant - the blacks and whites were both US citizens.

Your fingerprints are taken when you are granted a visa so don't tell me you have an objection to that - the Government already has a copy of yours. It is nothing to do with treating you as a criminal and everything to do with securing your identity and minimising your risk to the border.

Reply 62

CEKTOP

Original post by OMGWTFBBQ

Who told you that I want a university to have my prints? University =/= UKBA and I think that you can legally challenge it if no document allowing the use of this information was signed by you.

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Reply 63

OMGWTFBBQ

Original post by CEKTOP

I don't care what you want, frankly. When you matriculate into a University you agree to follow their rules. If these rules include fingerprinting as part of the University's obligations to the UKBA, you either sign up or go home.

You can legally challenge anything you want. But your case would be thrown out.

Reply 64

CEKTOP

Original post by OMGWTFBBQ

Are you an expert in E&W law?
You can legally challenge it and you would probably succeed as it is a blatant assault on privacy and equality which, frankly, has nothing to do with ensuring whether a student learns something or not.

Abu Qatada fought for his right to remain in the UK for quite a while, despite being an extremist. His case wasn't thrown out.

Reply 65

OMGWTFBBQ

Original post by CEKTOP

You can legally challenge it

Not disputing that.

and you would probably succeed

I am disputing that. Have you become an expert in E&W law?

as it is a blatant assault on privacy and equality

No it isn't and also tough.

YOU ARE NOT EQUAL TO A BRITISH CITIZEN IN BRITAIN. BRITISH IMMIGRATION WILL PAY ATTENTION TO YOU. DEAL WITH THIS.

You are a guest here. You can either accept our conditions of entry or you can leave.

which, frankly, has nothing to do with ensuring whether a student learns something or not.

This isn't about whether students are learning. It's about whether they are turning up or whether they have lied to the border force and are working on their visa (when they said they were studying).

The UKBA doesn't care whether you pass or fail. They care whether you're here on false pretences.

Abu Qatada fought for his right to remain in the UK for quite a while, despite being an extremist. His case wasn't thrown out.

Abu Qatada was fighting extradition as there was a threat of torture if deported. It has precisely nothing to do with this case.

Are you not bored yet of posting your uneducated nonsense?

Reply 66

nulli tertius

Original post by CEKTOP

I think a challenge would probably fail. This is the ICO guidance on fingerprinting in schools http://www.ico.org.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/schools/fingerprinting There are important differences. The university's retention of Highly Trusted Sponsor status is more important than whether a school library book goes missing. The risk of personation is much greater in the university context because the participants are older and wiser, the stakes are greater and the student is much less likely to be known by sight. Moreover he university can probably say that the cost of running a sign in register or card swipe system would be greater (probably easy to say that for the sign in register where data would need to be collated manually).

Nevertheless, I think it would be difficult to apply this to home students unless the university was to seriously enforce an attendance requirement.

Having said all of this Heathrow Airport backed down in a row with the ICO in a row over fingerprinting all departing and transit passengers a few years ago.

Reply 67

Nathanielle

Original post by rmhumphries

It is usually a condition of a student visa that you have <n> hours contact time, which you attend. If attendance isn't monitored, people can not study at all, but work instead (while they are here on a student visa). Requiring confirmation of attendance weekly won't solve that.

Just sleep during lectures or work from your Laptop. Checking attendance is by no means a good way to assure you use your visa primarily for studying and as I said some course simply lack the amount of contact hours you need to be not able to work. Foreign students at Imperial or Cambridge won't be the problem, I assume.

Much more interesting would be to ask, how they are able to work more than allowed, although they have no working permit?

Reply 68

nulli tertius

Original post by Nathanielle

By working for employers who turn a blind eye or by having more than one job.

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Reply 69

Nathanielle

Original post by nulli tertius

By working for employers who turn a blind eye or by having more than one job.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Exactly and that won't change by contact hours, because most timetables will still allow working in the night/late afternoon and at weekends, if not far more. (And exams being so easy they can be passed by a foreign "illegal" immigrant, working all the time!)

Reply 70

SillyEddy

Original post by CEKTOP

Who told you that I want a university to have my prints?

Good luck getting paid for a job if you won't use the fingerprint machine to clock in and clock out.

I don't even think those machines take a scan of your finger, they probably just find a few ridges and compare them to the database of employees or students. It's not like going to the police station and getting inked digits.

Reply 71

CEKTOP

Original post by SillyEddy

Clock ins and clock outs are for 9 to 5 vegetables who toil in places of mediocrity and indifference, I don't intend to become one.

Those machines do scan your finger, there is no such thing as "finding a few ridges".

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 72

Kiss

Sounds creepy as hell. Reminds me of Minority Report.

Reply 73

balotelli12

I think it's a Great idea

Reply 74

Juichiro

Original post by evespeers

Foreign students are being singled out because a lot of them stay in the country illegally after their degree, leaving the British taxpayer to foot the bill

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How? Arent foreign students forced to pay the fees upfront? If anything, they should worry about all those home graduates that will never earn enough to pay back their loans.

Reply 75

CEKTOP

Original post by Juichiro

How? Arent foreign students forced to pay the fees upfront? If anything, they should worry about all those home graduates that will never earn enough to pay back their loans.

You don't have to pay the fees upfront, although you wouldn't be able to graduate if you do not pay them.

Lots of EU students **** off without repaying the loan the British government provided them with to cover their fees.

The British govt. should really consider the possibility of losing those int. students as they actually bring in the money. Most home/EU ones borrow it from the government.

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Reply 76

Bronco2012

Don't care as long as UK students aren't affected. Lectures shouldn't be compulsory.

Reply 77

Nathanielle

Original post by CEKTOP

Lots of EU students **** off without repaying the loan the British government provided them with to cover their fees.

Where does that come from? You have to repay it from whereever you are and while the threshold is adjusted to each country, that doesn't mean, you work in a low wage job just to avoid repaying your loan. That's humbug.

Reply 78

CEKTOP

Original post by Nathanielle

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/4840188/EU-students-failing-to-pay-off-university-loans.html

Official 2009 figures for you, the problem still exists in 2013.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297951/EU-students-disappear-repaying-millions-loans-study-British-universities--UK-taxpayers-picking-bill.html

Somehow nobody is concerned about that, because, apparently, these are all respectable first-class citizens who contribute so much to the UK economy.

Forget about all the international students who foot all the bills, you can treat them like garbage.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 79

Nathanielle

Original post by CEKTOP

Yeah, but it is the same problem with every British citizen, who moves away and you will also find articles(and a thread on TSR) about tracing down loan takers in foreign countries, and not only Non-EU-citizens, but British people as well, who probably assumed by reading articles like that, that you don't have to pay it back. At least inside the EU I see no excuse for the British state, that anyone can just "disappear", as it is nearly impossible to disappear without giving up your job/identity and anyone, who refuses to pay back a loan becomes automatically a criminal and thus is persecuted, at
least within the EU.
In addition, if you would read the article properly, you would see, that there is no evidence for the claim formulated in the title and that the quote object the statement. It is also said clearly, that the problem is the student loan company, who does not take any action, although it could. Thus the British taxpayer is loosing money due to an ineffitive institution not doing it's work, not because of EU students!!!