Mathematical ability and mathematics degrees
My friend wants to read mathematics at uni but I advised against this.
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
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In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
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If everyone had that mindset, people would be discouraged to study maths at degree level.
No one is perfect in maths. You become better along the way, I would think an A at A level and a genuine interest is sufficient enough to succeed at the degree.
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No one is perfect in maths. You become better along the way, I would think an A at A level and a genuine interest is sufficient enough to succeed at the degree.
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Original post by Eva.Gregoria
If everyone had that mindset, people would be discouraged to study maths at degree level.
No one is perfect in maths. You become better along the way, I would think an A at A level and a genuine interest is sufficient enough to succeed at the degree.
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No one is perfect in maths. You become better along the way, I would think an A at A level and a genuine interest is sufficient enough to succeed at the degree.
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Not from what the mathmos on TSR have said. They say that in order to graduate with a first you need to be able to think critically and not just know mathematical methods
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Original post by Arieisit
Not from what the mathmos on TSR have said. They say that in order to graduate with a first you need to be able to think critically and not just know mathematical methods
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How do you know that she won't be able to learn to think critically once she gets there? I got a B at GCSE but an A* in my A level. Not necessarily because I got smarter but a mixture of reasons including better teachers, working harder, less subjects studied and a genuine interest. She could definitely improve by then.
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Original post by Arieisit
Not from what the mathmos on TSR have said. They say that in order to graduate with a first you need to be able to think critically and not just know mathematical methods
It's true you do, but equally it's a skill you learn through practice.
Some people will never be able to do it - my father took five attempts to get a C in his GCSE - but an A at A-level indicates the potential is there. Most people at the top universities will have breezed through maths and further maths easily, but it depends what she wants. If she loves maths she could easily graduate with a 2:1 or more from a middle range university if she works hard. It's a respected degree, and she'll have a good chance at a broad range of jobs.
If she wants to be an academic, go to a top university or get a high first I may suggest another subject, but it's up to her. I think you can learn the critical thinking involved if you have the right mindset, though obviously it's a massive advantage if it comes naturally. You can get a 2:1 just by doing routine questions, to be honest.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Arieisit
My friend wants to read mathematics at uni but I advised against this.
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
No, it is poor advice imo. If she loves it, and she seems to be competent, why should she not study it? What happened to studying something for your own interest? And how much practice has she actually had in solving problems that are not routine? If she has had very little practice, then how do you know she will not get better with practice? I found STEP to be very, very difficult when I first looked at it, I've gotten a lot better now with practice. Tell her to do just that, if she can solve STEP questions (after she's had sufficient practice, it would be unrealistic to expect her to be able to solve them straight away) then she is suited to it imo. If she is still struggling and can only do routine questions, it might be slightly worrying, but I know people who are not as good at maths as the standart of TSR is, but they've still gone on to study it because they love the subject. And it would be possible to get a respectable degree classification on the back of hard work.
If she only has an A in A level maths, then COWI is out of the question but there are lots of other respectable universities that would take her with an A.
(edited 10 years ago)
If she wants to do it, don't discourage her. That's the worst thing to do.
If she can do what has been taught so far (as shown by the fact she has got an A), there is nothing to suggest she will be unable to cope with what she is taught at uni.
Not everyone reads around the subject at A-level OP, most people learn what they need to to pass exams, which she clearly has judging by her A grade.
Also a lot of people will be doing maths at uni having got below an A in A-level maths and cope just fine, so why wouldn't she?
Finally a love for the subject cannot be underestimated. It will help a lot at uni.
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
Edit: just as I suspected, you got high UMS at AS. I.e. one of those people who are stuck up and look down on people who do worse than them and say they aren't good enough to do things. Not a good attitude to take OP. I did well at A-level and don't rub it in people's faces - you make no friends doing that and I am surprised your friend didn't react in anger to what you said.
If an A is not good enough to do a subject at uni, then what is? Not everyone can do as well as you at A-level OP.
Not everyone reads around the subject at A-level OP, most people learn what they need to to pass exams, which she clearly has judging by her A grade.
Also a lot of people will be doing maths at uni having got below an A in A-level maths and cope just fine, so why wouldn't she?
Finally a love for the subject cannot be underestimated. It will help a lot at uni.
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
Edit: just as I suspected, you got high UMS at AS. I.e. one of those people who are stuck up and look down on people who do worse than them and say they aren't good enough to do things. Not a good attitude to take OP. I did well at A-level and don't rub it in people's faces - you make no friends doing that and I am surprised your friend didn't react in anger to what you said.
If an A is not good enough to do a subject at uni, then what is? Not everyone can do as well as you at A-level OP.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Scott.M
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
This tbh, might just be me misinterpreting but it kind of read like he was slagging her off in the OP.
Original post by Arieisit
Not from what the mathmos on TSR have said. They say that in order to graduate with a first you need to be able to think critically and not just know mathematical methods
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This is all part of being taught a degree. You can't expect to waltz in and ace everything, you learn how to approach different topics in different ways.
To back up the majority of posts, I know people who have an A* in maths at A level and have struggled whereas I was only allowed to do the intermediate paper at school, didn't take A-levels, and I'm on course for a high first. If a person loves the subject, they give themselves every chance to do well!
The level of difficulty in maths degrees drops massively outside of COWI from what I've seen. I don't want to be specifically picking on any University but even UCL's problem sets and exams are considerably more routine and straight-forward in comparison, and I'm sure the it only gets worse when looking further afield. If someone is desperate to study maths but doesn't find Maths/Further Maths a complete breeze, I doubt you'd have to look very far outside of the top ~12 universities for maths to find a course where you can get a 2:1 from just learning definitions, theorems and key proofs (in fact, if I'm being overly honest, in my opinion it's possible to do this at UCL provided the exams don't get scaled the other way i.e. you need >60% raw marks to get 60%/2:1).
What university? An A at A-level is certainly enough for some of the easier places to study it, but it won't get you far in COWI(B). I can only speak from the perspective of an Oxford student but here you would not get anywhere without being able to do questions that vary from the norm. Really you need replies from maths students at the uni's your friend wants to apply to.
Original post by Arieisit
My friend wants to read mathematics at uni but I advised against this.
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
What exam board did she do? This is important.
Original post by Arieisit
My friend wants to read mathematics at uni but I advised against this.
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
In my opinion she can only mostly solve A level questions that are routine although she has an A. Sometimes there might be a slight deviation from the norm and she might get the question correct. Most times however she fails to do so.
Am I right in advising her not to persue the course although she loves mathematics? Wouldn't she struggle at uni maths if she can only mostly do routine a level questions?
Posted from TSR Mobile
There is a huge diversity of university Mathematics courses - some of them don't go far above A level standard in the first year - so it's perfectly possible for your friend to do well in a uni maths course if she's not aiming for one of the top institutions.
When you say "she has an A", has she completed her A levels already? Or is that just her AS grade, which isn't particularly useful as a guide to mathematical ability?
Original post by Scott.M
If she can do what has been taught so far (as shown by the fact she has got an A), there is nothing to suggest she will be unable to cope with what she is taught at uni.
Not everyone reads around the subject at A-level OP, most people learn what they need to to pass exams, which she clearly has judging by her A grade.
Also a lot of people will be doing maths at uni having got below an A in A-level maths and cope just fine, so why wouldn't she?
Finally a love for the subject cannot be underestimated. It will help a lot at uni.
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
Edit: just as I suspected, you got high UMS at AS. I.e. one of those people who are stuck up and look down on people who do worse than them and say they aren't good enough to do things. Not a good attitude to take OP. I did well at A-level and don't rub it in people's faces - you make no friends doing that and I am surprised your friend didn't react in anger to what you said.
If an A is not good enough to do a subject at uni, then what is? Not everyone can do as well as you at A-level OP.
Not everyone reads around the subject at A-level OP, most people learn what they need to to pass exams, which she clearly has judging by her A grade.
Also a lot of people will be doing maths at uni having got below an A in A-level maths and cope just fine, so why wouldn't she?
Finally a love for the subject cannot be underestimated. It will help a lot at uni.
No offence but the fact you advised her to not do maths despite the fact she got an A at A-level suggests you are one of those dicks who puts people down when it is clearly unwarranted. 'You aren't cut out for maths. You might get an A, but you aren't good enough as you got that question there wrong, which was an easy question - seriously how could you get that wrong? You clearly aren't good at maths hahaha'. Basically destroying her confidence when there is no need to do so as she is doing more than fine.
Edit: just as I suspected, you got high UMS at AS. I.e. one of those people who are stuck up and look down on people who do worse than them and say they aren't good enough to do things. Not a good attitude to take OP. I did well at A-level and don't rub it in people's faces - you make no friends doing that and I am surprised your friend didn't react in anger to what you said.
If an A is not good enough to do a subject at uni, then what is? Not everyone can do as well as you at A-level OP.
I don't know where you get off calling me a dick as you don't know me! I was never trying to bring her down. She wants to read maths at Cambridge and no where else. This is why I told her what I did.
I don't look down on other people for not getting as high as me, I'm not the jerk you think I am.
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Original post by Felix Felicis
No, it is poor advice imo. If she loves it, and she seems to be competent, why should she not study it? What happened to studying something for your own interest? And how much practice has she actually had in solving problems that are not routine? If she has had very little practice, then how do you know she will not get better with practice? I found STEP to be very, very difficult when I first looked at it, I've gotten a lot better now with practice. Tell her to do just that, if she can solve STEP questions (after she's had sufficient practice, it would be unrealistic to expect her to be able to solve them straight away) then she is suited to it imo. If she is still struggling and can only do routine questions, it might be slightly worrying, but I know people who are not as good at maths as the standart of TSR is, but they've still gone on to study it because they love the subject. And it would be possible to get a respectable degree classification on the back of hard work.
If she only has an A in A level maths, then COWI is out of the question but there are lots of other respectable universities that would take her with an A.
If she only has an A in A level maths, then COWI is out of the question but there are lots of other respectable universities that would take her with an A.
As I said in the last post which I should have mentioned in the OP she wants to read maths at Cambridge.
How do inknow she can only solve routine A level questions?
Do you remember when I posted this on the proof is trivial thread asking if it would be considered as trivial?
She was gutted by this question and wasn't able to solve it after even a long time. This is similar for other questions that are not standard.
I however admit that I was wrong for discouraging her from Maths.
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Original post by davros
There is a huge diversity of university Mathematics courses - some of them don't go far above A level standard in the first year - so it's perfectly possible for your friend to do well in a uni maths course if she's not aiming for one of the top institutions.
When you say "she has an A", has she completed her A levels already? Or is that just her AS grade, which isn't particularly useful as a guide to mathematical ability?
When you say "she has an A", has she completed her A levels already? Or is that just her AS grade, which isn't particularly useful as a guide to mathematical ability?
This is just AS.
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Original post by Arieisit
So she's now just started year 13?
I notice you've now added extra info to the effect that she wants to read Maths at Cambridge! Hasn't she already missed the deadline for applications???
Original post by Arieisit
Not from what the mathmos on TSR have said. They say that in order to graduate with a first you need to be able to think critically and not just know mathematical methods
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A first, maybe, but that doesn't mean you can't do well and get a 2:1
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