Any serial killer/ criminology enthusiasts out there? Watch

sarahzodiac
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#1
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So, I was just scrolling through a random forum last night, and I came across this theory about serial killer's being "the height of evolution". This guy offered an evolutionary explanation of serial murder by accounting for mate competition and "survival of the fittest" as causes for aggression and consequently murder. Serial killers are "the height of evolution" because they have "evolved" to have less conscience and aversions to eliminating competition, through murder... Of course the argument for this could be that a large percentage of serial killers rape and murder women, like Bundy, which doesn't make sense from an evolutionary perspective as they're not passing on their genes. It's an interesting concept, I wondered what you guys thought about it. Opinions? (Be nice, I'm new here).
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lucine.B
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YES! I know it seems weird but I am a major enthusiast I agree, no genes are being passed on from generation to generation so not quite sure how that argument can explain it really. I understand the idea of it being related to survival of the fittest but I fail to see how some serial killers saw their victim as a threat to their survival... But I dunno. Gonna have to think harder about this haha.
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sarahzodiac
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(Original post by lucine.B)
YES! I know it seems weird but I am a major enthusiast I agree, no genes are being passed on from generation to generation so not quite sure how that argument can explain it really. I understand the idea of it being related to survival of the fittest but I fail to see how some serial killers saw their victim as a threat to their survival... But I dunno. Gonna have to think harder about this haha.
So am I. I think they meant the psychology of serial murder is an evolutionary adaptation in order to eliminate any competition. I guess it's not as of yet evolved enough to pick out actual threats, which is why most of the victims are picked at random or as a result of sexually motivated crimes... but the base foundation to murder as a new approach to "survival of the fittest" is there. I found it a really interesting concept, even if there's very little evidence to support it.
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ddaappoo
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(Original post by sarahzodiac)
So am I. I think they meant the psychology of serial murder is an evolutionary adaptation in order to eliminate any competition. I guess it's not as of yet evolved enough to pick out actual threats, which is why most of the victims are picked at random or as a result of sexually motivated crimes... but the base foundation to murder as a new approach to "survival of the fittest" is there. I found it a really interesting concept, even if there's very little evidence to support it.
maybe but you must also take into account the various serial killers who have mental health issues. is it a predatory natural instinct or is it because of their borderline insanity?
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sarahzodiac
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(Original post by ddaappoo)
maybe but you must also take into account the various serial killers who have mental health issues. is it a predatory natural instinct or is it because of their borderline insanity?
Exactly, that would be another argument against this theory. I mean, you don't look at killers like Herbert Mullin or David Berkowitz and think "Wow, that guy is definitely the height of evolutionary adaptation"... I think the instinct to murder could be evolved, but that there are various other factors influencing serial murder, with mental health being one of them.
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lucine.B
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(Original post by ddaappoo)
maybe but you must also take into account the various serial killers who have mental health issues. is it a predatory natural instinct or is it because of their borderline insanity?
Exactly what I was going to say. But the things is you never know, if it was inherited and therefore passed down from gene to gene why did their parents and various other ancestors not act in such a way???

(Original post by sarahzodiac)
So am I. I think they meant the psychology of serial murder is an evolutionary adaptation in order to eliminate any competition. I guess it's not as of yet evolved enough to pick out actual threats, which is why most of the victims are picked at random or as a result of sexually motivated crimes... but the base foundation to murder as a new approach to "survival of the fittest" is there. I found it a really interesting concept, even if there's very little evidence to support it.
Mmm, possibly. Except when certain serial killers have been assessed yes some of them are out to vindicate but if anything some seemed to think they were doing good or whatever. Its okay to look at the psychology of it all, but when it comes to criminology people try to stay away from getting into the mind of the killer as that can lead to many assumptions and the idea of thinking you know it all etc. etc. plus its more why, how versus what & who... if that makes sense. Wait... not even sure if that makes sense to me :lol: Yeah its rather interesting! There's a lot to be found up before we can even come to ome sort of a conclusion, plus other theories need to be taken into consideration. But yeah I think I'm gonna have a little think about this.
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NightStalker
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Thing about evolution is that physically speaking, it doesn't really exist anymore in humans - if you have any evidence that it does, feel free to prove me wrong. Mental evolution is where it's all at, in my opinion. Whereas being detached or misanthropic as many serial killers are could be considered to be could be an advantage with regards to ensuring the continuation of your own genetics, it also swings the other way. You could argue that empathy is an evolutionary advantage for the human race as a whole, a person may put themselves in danger for the 'greater good' of mankind (though really, the good of mankind is non-existent), which would help improve the survival of the human race as a whole, but not ensure their genetics continue on through generations. Whilst on the topic of evolution I'd like to point out an unpopular opinion of mine - if serial killers are well adapted creatures, then suicidal people are maladaptive. Since In my opinion I believe that all evolution happens within the mind now, this would mean that suicidal depression is a way of filtering out those who are perhaps not mentally strong enough for our society. Such as fight to the death scenarios - would you be able to defend yourself if a serial killer was to approach you? More importantly would you want to, or rather, have the guts to? That is the new natural selection.
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sarahzodiac
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(Original post by lucine.B)
Exactly what I was going to say. But the things is you never know, if it was inherited and therefore passed down from gene to gene why did their parents and various other ancestors not act in such a way???

Mmm, possibly. Except when certain serial killers have been assessed yes some of them are out to vindicate but if anything some seemed to think they were doing good or whatever. Its okay to look at the psychology of it all, but when it comes to criminology people try to stay away from getting into the mind of the killer as that can lead to many assumptions and the idea of thinking you know it all etc. etc. plus its more why, how versus what & who... if that makes sense. Wait... not even sure if that makes sense to me :lol: Yeah its rather interesting! There's a lot to be found up before we can even come to ome sort of a conclusion, plus other theories need to be taken into consideration. But yeah I think I'm gonna have a little think about this.
Recessive genes, the presence of certain hormones that trigger the innate impulse to kill, situational and environmental factors... I personally don't believe that they are any more evolved, but possibly lesser so, as murder is generally primitive, a return to the days before society really existed. Although it would make sense that only certain people inherit an innate desire to kill and the mental capability to actually act upon it... to an extent. Over population could be a threat to our survival after all...
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sarahzodiac
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(Original post by NightStalker)
Thing about evolution is that physically speaking, it doesn't really exist anymore in humans - if you have any evidence that it does, feel free to prove me wrong. Mental evolution is where it's all at, in my opinion. Whereas being detached or misanthropic as many serial killers are could be considered to be could be an advantage with regards to ensuring the continuation of your own genetics, it also swings the other way. You could argue that empathy is an evolutionary advantage for the human race as a whole, a person may put themselves in danger for the 'greater good' of mankind (though really, the good of mankind is non-existent), which would help improve the survival of the human race as a whole, but not ensure their genetics continue on through generations. Whilst on the topic of evolution I'd like to point out an unpopular opinion of mine - if serial killers are well adapted creatures, then suicidal people are maladaptive. Since In my opinion I believe that all evolution happens within the mind now, this would mean that suicidal depression is a way of filtering out those who are perhaps not mentally strong enough for our society. Such as fight to the death scenarios - would you be able to defend yourself if a serial killer was to approach you? More importantly would you want to, or rather, have the guts to? That is the new natural selection.
I definitely understand where you're coming from with that. I think individualistic society has developed to the point that the survival of the collective is no longer a priority. I struggle to apply evolution to the way we live nowadays, apart from where it concerns the psychology of an individual. Another point is that a lot of serial killers describe the impulse to kill as uncontrollable, like Bundy- which is undeniably maladaptive. Evolution also fails to explain killers like Panzram, who killed out of a complete hatred of human kind. But when we look at Brady, who calculated and had absolute control over his murderous desires, and has an IQ of genius level, you can almost see why they could be considered as well adapted. Despite being repulsive to most of the human race. Also, brave opinion. And I would agree up to a certain point. But what about those that suffer suicidal depression and don't kill themselves? Surely they're psychologically stronger than those that don't have to fight the risk of suicide on a regular basis. And I'd definitely have a go at anyone that threatened my life... Ramirez or not I'd take them or die trying. Points for being well adapted?
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NightStalker
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(Original post by sarahzodiac)
I definitely understand where you're coming from with that. I think individualistic society has developed to the point that the survival of the collective is no longer a priority. I struggle to apply evolution to the way we live nowadays, apart from where it concerns the psychology of an individual. Another point is that a lot of serial killers describe the impulse to kill as uncontrollable, like Bundy- which is undeniably maladaptive. Evolution also fails to explain killers like Panzram, who killed out of a complete hatred of human kind. But when we look at Brady, who calculated and had absolute control over his murderous desires, and has an IQ of genius level, you can almost see why they could be considered as well adapted. Despite being repulsive to most of the human race. Also, brave opinion. And I would agree up to a certain point. But what about those that suffer suicidal depression and don't kill themselves? Surely they're psychologically stronger than those that don't have to fight the risk of suicide on a regular basis. And I'd definitely have a go at anyone that threatened my life... Ramirez or not I'd take them or die trying. Points for being well adapted?
I see where you're coming from with the point about people who suffer through and survive with severe depression. It reminds me of the handicap theory of female mate selection, in text books it often gives the example of alcoholics being strong, regardless of the dependency on alcohol because their body can take it - showing strong genetics and survival characteristics. The same could be considered with those who live with mental illnesses, although they are ill and so would be considered to be slightly less adapted, they have the strength to live through it, showing good willpower and thus, genetics - if you lean towards the biological and evolutionary theory of psychology that is. This could possibly mean that those who live with and survive depression could be more highly adapted than mentally stable humans. Sorry about the digression - just food for thought.
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