Should people on benefits have to work in the local community? Watch

Lady Comstock
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So if you want to claim benefits, you have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in the local community cleaning graffiti, assisting council workers, etc.

Pros:
- People on benefits pay their way.
- Prepares them for a real job and gives them transferable skills.
- Will probably go towards de-tarnishing the image of people on benefits.

How can you disagree with this?
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MatureStudent36
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There's already threads on this one
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
There's already threads on this one
So what? People may have changed their views, new members registered since then, etc. Almost every thread on here has one preceding it.
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
There's already threads on this one
What he said.

Some people want benefit scroungers to die in the gutters. Some don't think benefit scroungers exist. Some think work would be helpful to get back people into work. Some think it's slave labour. Yada yada yada...
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So what? People may have changed their views, new members registered since then, etc. Almost every thread on here has one preceding it.
Then you can read what views they originally had and see if the tribe changed them and add to them
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Drewski
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
How can you disagree with this?
Because benefits don't come even remotely close to equating to a 9-5 full time job even at minimum wage.

Unless, that is, you're suggesting benefits should be ~£250/wk instead of ~£70/wk?
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Shazzarr
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You're forgetting those with illnesses and those who're on benefts and work.
If you're gonna benefit bash then atleast state what 'type' of benefits there are.
Not everyone on benefits are lazy scroungers
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TheHistoryStudent
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So if you want to claim benefits, you have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in the local community cleaning graffiti, assisting council workers, etc.

Pros:
- People on benefits pay their way. the whole point of the welfare system is that it's a safety net for the less fortunate free of charge, and those who pay taxes and fall on hard times already pay for it via taxes, so this point is stupid

- Prepares them for a real job and gives them transferable skills. it doesn't on both counts as the skills it provides are damn near useless for helping people get permanently on their feet (i.e through a decent education to open up a career path), and the work it prepares them for, if any, is never going to pay the sort of wage to support them to a decent standard - all of which is ignoring the fact that if someone already had a job to begin with, they're already have the skills and mindset needed for a real job.

- Will probably go towards de-tarnishing the image of people on benefits. who are a small minority of those who claim benefits anyway and only an idiot would believe they're a majority.

How can you disagree with this? because I think you're just trolling, and because I think it's an idiotic direction we're going in when we treat the welfare system as something to be earned even after it's paid for by our taxes. and that anyone who uses it, god forbid, having fallen on hard times, is a scrounger.
..
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Alfissti
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So if you want to claim benefits, you have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in the local community cleaning graffiti, assisting council workers, etc.
Would this be applicable to all benefits or just JSA? Also are you sure there are enough graffiti to clean up? I personally think the person who made that graffiti when caught should be made to wear a hi-vis vest and made to clean it off without any power tools.
(Original post by Lady Comstock)
Pros: - People on benefits pay their way.
Sure, but it is also means a job cut somewhere else. Also might mean DWP or the Council may have to fork out for childcare or other allowances for them to perform that job. May not actually save any money.
(Original post by Lady Comstock)
- Prepares them for a real job and gives them transferable skills.
Whenever I'm hiring someone for one of my own businesses and to a certain extent for my employers and I see a CV of someone who had only worked as a civil servant I'm most likely to throw that CV away, the rare exceptions are those who are ex-HM Forces and even these bunch I'm quite selective, this isn't a rarity out there. It's unlikely such menial jobs would provide any transferable skills that are useful in the private sector. It is also unlikely to show me that someone has any work ethic as they were merely doing it to avoid sanctions.
(Original post by Lady Comstock)
Will probably go towards de-tarnishing the image of people on benefits.
I doubt this would be the case. I'd still view those on benefits as scummy scroungers.
(Original post by Lady Comstock)
How can you disagree with this?
I don't disagree with it but I doubt it'd work for the reasons you're hoping for.
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Tom78
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So if you want to claim benefits, you have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in the local community cleaning graffiti, assisting council workers, etc.

Pros:
- People on benefits pay their way.
- Prepares them for a real job and gives them transferable skills.
- Will probably go towards de-tarnishing the image of people on benefits.

How can you disagree with this?
You may as well apply all of these things to old people seeing as pensions are the real expense. Let's not resort back to slavery just so we can discriminate against poor/unwell people.
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Kittiara
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So if you want to claim benefits, you have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in the local community cleaning graffiti, assisting council workers, etc.
Well, that would be having a job, for which the person should be paid an actual wage instead of benefits.

Pros:
- People on benefits pay their way.
People might already have paid their way through work before they require some support. Even if they haven't worked yet, though, they should be focusing on trying to find a job. Perhaps, if it's helpful for them/suitable for them, they can do some voluntary work that's relevant to their field, or do a course that upgrades their skills. They can't do all that if they're working.

Also, as another poster asked, would this be for people on JSA, or for anyone on benefits, including those on tax credits, housing benefit top ups, child benefits and so on? Because, you know, they probably already have a job in that case...

- Prepares them for a real job and gives them transferable skills.
Not really. It would be much more helpful if, for example, the government helped them into courses suitable for them. And that's if they even need that. Unemployed people may well have lots of skills already, through many years of work and education, in which case, the Government should leave well alone and support them when between jobs.

- Will probably go towards de-tarnishing the image of people on benefits.
What would help de-tarnish the image of people on benefits would be for the media to stop attacking people on benefits and stop trying to divide society, for politicians to do the same, and for those who think of people on benefits as lazy scroungers to educate themselves.

How can you disagree with this?
See the above.
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Olie
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(Original post by TheHistoryStudent)
..
Very well said, the problem with many benefit bashers is that they never even try to see it from another point of view, they only seem to be able to see it from the 'all benefit claimants are the scum of society' viewpoint, which as said time and time again is simply not true and is just what the media want people to believe.

And yes, like said by someone else, if its a 9-5 5 day a week job, then the current weekly benefits are unreasonable.
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TheHistoryStudent
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(Original post by Olie)
Very well said, the problem with many benefit bashers is that they never even try to see it from another point of view, they only seem to be able to see it from the 'all benefit claimants are the scum of society' viewpoint, which as said time and time again is simply not true and is just what the media want people to believe.

And yes, like said by someone else, if its a 9-5 5 day a week job, then the current weekly benefits are unreasonable.
Don't worry I'm sure they'll be the first to volunteer for a 40 hour week of ****/pointless work (such as stacking shelves in poundland) for their benefits when their life goes through a rough patch rather than using that time instead to search for a proper job (or at least something to tide them over until a proper job can be found).

On topic I think we are currently walking a dangerous path in terms of our attitude to benefits, in that there seems to be a growing perception that the system is full of scroungers when in reality they're only ever going to be a minority anyway. Personally I think it's down to a combination of the government looking for ways to save money (as they should do) but also increasing attention both in government and media on ways to try and root out and stop payments to scroungers, which naturally looks at the dark side of the benefits bill anyway.

The fact of the matter is however that unless the government is prepared to make the private sector pay a living wage through an increase in the minimum wage or some sort of equivalent action, it's going to have to cover the shortfall out of taxpayer money. I'm no economist as my username suggests, so I don't know if it'd work, but I think we need to seriously ask the question of who is really benefiting from the benefits system - people in hard times who get given a pittance which is barely enough to live on, or companies large & small who do not pay their employees enough to live on at all and thus force the taxpayer to take care of the less fortunate anyway. Even if our economy may be growing, I think the way we are restructuring it is going to only make the poor worse off anyway, as the safety net of the benefits system is being cut to the bone, without an increase in wages or availability of proper work which pays a decent amount, and with constantly increasing prices for the essentials such as food, water & energy.
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Maccees
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My Dad's on JSA at the moment, but he's worked for the last 40 years in the Nuclear Industry. Please tell me how him being paid £1.83 an hour cleaning graffiti off walls will give him transferable skills?
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uktotalgamer
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(Original post by Maccees)
My Dad's on JSA at the moment, but he's worked for the last 40 years in the Nuclear Industry. Please tell me how him being paid £1.83 an hour cleaning graffiti off walls will give him transferable skills?
Please give me a good reason as to why he shouldn't do that instead of doing nothing? Surely doing something is better than nothing?
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Maccees
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(Original post by uktotalgamer)
Please give me a good reason as to why he shouldn't do that instead of doing nothing? Surely doing something is better than nothing?
Except he's not your average benefit cheat who sits on their arse doing nothing. While working 9-5 on more than 70% less than you'd get in a minimum wage job, when should he look for another job that will be paying back far more in tax than what JSA paid him, along with giving him the ability to look after a family of 5? He spends most days applying for jobs and contacting agents as it is.

That's not even taking into account the people that already do those types of jobs anyway. They'd lose their job, go onto JSA and then do the same job for less money. The idea has too many flaws to work. Something similar would possibly work for completely unskilled people who like to sit at home and earn £70 doing nothing, but that's it.
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Jjj90
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You know what pisses me off. And I don't know if you're alluding to JSA, so excuse me if i'm talking out of turn...

But most people on the job seekers DO "pay their way" for a VAST VAST VAST chunk of their lives! A huuuge majority of their lives they pay taxes, so why when they are out of work should they be made to feel like they are doing community service?? Like minor criminals?? I would strongly disagree with any measures and would not take part in these activities, cleaning **** off the streets for £50 a week, really?? The real shame is that the minority (the people that want to live on the dole) have tarnished everybody else, and have stained a very reasonable system; when seemingly intelligent people brand everyone on benefits with the same brush it really get on my nerves.

The demonisation of those on benefits needs to end right now. Brainwashed Tory ****s.
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uktotalgamer
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(Original post by Maccees)
Except he's not your average benefit cheat who sits on their arse doing nothing. While working 9-5 on more than 70% less than you'd get in a minimum wage job, when should he look for another job that will be paying back far more in tax than what JSA paid him, along with giving him the ability to look after a family of 5? He spends most days applying for jobs and contacting agents as it is.

That's not even taking into account the people that already do those types of jobs anyway. They'd lose their job, go onto JSA and then do the same job for less money. The idea has too many flaws to work. Something similar would possibly work for completely unskilled people who like to sit at home and earn £70 doing nothing, but that's it.
I don't think that anybody is seriously suggesting that it would be a 37hpw job... And as far as the government's concerned he's just another person on JSA, whether anyone is a 'benefit cheat' or not, they're just a number.

In regards to your second point I'd disagree. I'll admit that there are people doing those jobs, but arguably not enough of them. Having those that are on JSA fill the gaps for a few hours a week would solve this. It happens in other countries. When I visited Germany a few years back it was snowing quite heavily. You wouldn't know it on the pavements and roads because there were several street sweepers cleaning the place up.

I don't see why you feel like anyone has a sense of entitlement not to work just because they have done so before...
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Maccees
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(Original post by uktotalgamer)
I don't think that anybody is seriously suggesting that it would be a 37hpw job... And as far as the government's concerned he's just another person on JSA, whether anyone is a 'benefit cheat' or not, they're just a number.

In regards to your second point I'd disagree. I'll admit that there are people doing those jobs, but arguably not enough of them. Having those that are on JSA fill the gaps for a few hours a week would solve this. It happens in other countries. When I visited Germany a few years back it was snowing quite heavily. You wouldn't know it on the pavements and roads because there were several street sweepers cleaning the place up.

I don't see why you feel like anyone has a sense of entitlement not to work just because they have done so before...
In the OP he says people should work 9-5, that's what I was going off.

So what you are saying is you should have one chap on £6.31 an hour cleaning the streets, with a guy down the road doing the exact same job for a hell of a lot less. Or we should treat someone on JSA in the same way we'd treat criminals doing community service just because they've lost their job?

When did I say that? :s A professional person with a family and a mortgage will want another job more than anyone, but making them pick up litter all day instead of looking for one will accomplish nothing. JSA payments count towards your yearly income for income tax anyway, so it's not even as if the government will be losing out.
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uktotalgamer
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(Original post by Maccees)
In the OP he says people should work 9-5, that's what I was going off.

So what you are saying is you should have one chap on £6.31 an hour cleaning the streets, with a guy down the road doing the exact same job for a hell of a lot less. Or we should treat someone on JSA in the same way we'd treat criminals doing community service just because they've lost their job?

When did I say that? :s A professional person with a family and a mortgage will want another job more than anyone, but making them pick up litter all day instead of looking for one will accomplish nothing. JSA payments count towards your yearly income for income tax anyway, so it's not even as if the government will be losing out.
In which case then the OP is deluded.

I fail to see your point. Are you driven by personal greed? It's about doing good for society and I fail to see how doing maybe 10 hours of work over a week to help others is a problem. I really don't see it. It's benefits society and at the same time shows willingness to work which is an admirable trait. Doing perhaps 10 hours a week still leaves plenty of time to look for jobs.

Im really failing to see how doing a favour for society is detrimental. That's the problem these days. Nobody is willing to do things for other people, that and also the willingness of people to enter debt so freely.
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