Why are people so happy to have their human rights removed? Watch

Poll: Are many governments trying to errode and remove our human rights?
Yes (Explain why) (12)
85.71%
No (Expalin why) (2)
14.29%
Neutral (Explain why) (0)
0%
Rational Thinker
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#1
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#1
I understand that terror suspects in many cases need to be deported however it seems as if the fascists that currently dwell in number ten are manipulating people into sacrificig their human rights.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/...man-rights-act

Do not misinterpret what I am saying I think that many Labour poltiicians Harriet Harman and her foolish idea that males caused the credit crunch are just as obnoxious. Really though are these two parties just the right and "left" of the same Jackboot?*

*I also think UKIP are a false herring as despite some good policies they have a rabid anti intellectualism.
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Rational Thinker
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#2
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Anyone? Personally It makes me think more and more of Orwell's 1984, let us not forget that the Conservative party. Recently deleted all their previous records, including in an enduring irony their pre election speeches praising the internets openess.
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Moosferatu
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Fear.
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Rational Thinker
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
Fear.
It seems rather farcical. Why would anyone want to give such decidely unpleasant people as
George Osborne and Theresa May any more power? As for the police they are decidely fascist
enough already spying on student unions and delibrately obstructing inquiries into their behaviour
eg Stephen Lawrence and Hilsborough, we do not want to allow them to become another Gestapo or NKVD do we?
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by Rational Thinker)
It seems rather farcical. Why would anyone want to give such decidely unpleasant people as
George Osborne and Theresa May any more power? As for the police they are decidely fascist
enough already spying on student unions and delibrately obstructing inquiries into their behaviour
eg Stephen Lawrence and Hilsborough, we do not want to allow them to become another Gestapo or NKVD do we?
As hysterical as it may sound, I do think the idea of our freedoms slowly eroded is a solid one. All the evidence seems to point towards it. Politicians are so contemptuous of the electorate. But it's easily done. As long as there are morons (i.e. the vast majority of the population), social control is easy. Best way to get on is to keep your mouth shut and get on with life.
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
As hysterical as it may sound, I do think the idea of our freedoms slowly eroded is a solid one. All the evidence seems to point towards it. Politicians are so contemptuous of the electorate. But it's easily done. As long as there are morons (i.e. the vast majority of the population), social control is easy. Best way to get on is to keep your mouth shut and get on with life.
It is absurd. Furthermore I heard a speech recently by Gove praising Primo Levi. Levi would be appalled I believe at the way Gove is trying to divide people (though I do agree with some of Gove's policie). However only through challenging the government can it be made to be fairer.
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Moosferatu
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#7
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'The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing'

Well, there are good men doing nothing all over the world. Nobody cares about liberty. Stability is the key.

I wonder where it will remain as it is now, or whether things will gradually worsen in time. We're up against China at the minute, and our leaders look like angels compared to them.
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#8
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
'The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing'

Well, there are good men doing nothing all over the world. Nobody cares about liberty. Stability is the key.

I wonder where it will remain as it is now, or whether things will gradually worsen in time. We're up against China at the minute, and our leaders look like angels compared to them.
I think that is just the thing. I do not doubt that China's government are highly undemocratic and authoritarian. However that should not let us get complacent about our own government.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".
Benjamin Franklin.
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Pastaferian
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#9
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(Original post by Rational Thinker)
I understand that terror suspects in many cases need to be deported however it seems as if the fascists that currently dwell in number ten are manipulating people into sacrificig their human rights.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/...man-rights-act
Do not misinterpret what I am saying I think that many Labour poltiicians Harriet Harman and her foolish idea that males caused the credit crunch are just as obnoxious. Really though are these two parties just the right and "left" of the same Jackboot?*
At no point did she say we will withdraw, and I think she was posturing. Partly to boost her chances of taking over when Cameron gets stabbed in the back, and partly to have an effective negotiating position in any discussions with international partners.

*I also think UKIP are a false herring as despite some good policies they have a rabid anti intellectualism.
I love the idea of a 'false herring' (not a dig - I make this sort of mixed metaphor mistake as well occasionally)
But yes, UKIP is the opposite of intellectual - IMO, they are the party that says what people who don't think are thinking.
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Alfissti
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#10
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I'm more interested in economic freedom, human rights? If you're wealthy enough you'll have all the rights in the world. Therefore if you want more rights then work towards it.

Spying on student unions? Go ahead, it doesn't bother me.
Spying on crooks? Pretty sure it wouldn't be abused and I rather they do that than for me to always have to be on the lookout for crooks.
Deporting crooks and terrorist, I personally believe such people should be stripped of ALL their human rights.
Humane treatment of prisoners, a convicted criminal shouldn't be allowed to have rights.
Migrants needing a bond, I think this is an excellent idea.

Too much freedoms, rights and privileges is as bad if not worse than having too little of it.
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Rational Thinker
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#11
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(Original post by Pastaferian)
At no point did she say we will withdraw, and I think she was posturing. Partly to boost her chances of taking over when Cameron gets stabbed in the back, and partly to have an effective negotiating position in any discussions with international partners.


I love the idea of a 'false herring' (not a dig - I make this sort of mixed metaphor mistake as well occasionally)
But yes, UKIP is the opposite of intellectual - IMO, they are the party that says what people who don't think are thinking.
I think Cameron for all his faults is one of the most innocuous of the Conservatives and is reasonably supportive of human rights.
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(Original post by Alfissti)
I'm more interested in economic freedom, human rights? If you're wealthy enough you'll have all the rights in the world. Therefore if you want more rights then work towards it.

Spying on student unions? Go ahead, it doesn't bother me.
Spying on crooks? Pretty sure it wouldn't be abused and I rather they do that than for me to always have to be on the lookout for crooks.
Deporting crooks and terrorist, I personally believe such people should be stripped of ALL their human rights.
Humane treatment of prisoners, a convicted criminal shouldn't be allowed to have rights.
Migrants needing a bond, I think this is an excellent idea.

Too much freedoms, rights and privileges is as bad if not worse than having too little of it.
While I agree with some of your policies number three. The others sound like the word type of crony capitalism . Do you think it will be crooks alone that governments conduct surveillance upon? It opens the door to fascism.
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Democracy
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The right wing media has spent so long bashing the concept of human rights by equating it with prisoners having TV in their cells in an effort to enrage the "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells"s of the country such that we've now arrived at a point where a large portion of our society genuinely believes that human rights are either redundant, expendable or an EU conspiracy. Or all of the above.

As such...removal of human rights isn't seen as such a big deal. Like everything else it's deception and manipulation.
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Rational Thinker
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(Original post by Democracy)
The right wing media has spent so long bashing the concept of human rights by equating it with prisoners having TV in their cells in an effort to enrage the "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells"s of the country such that we've now arrived at a point where a large portion of our society genuinely believes that human rights are either redundant, expendable or an EU conspiracy. Or all of the above.

As such...removal of human rights isn't seen as such a big deal. Like everything else it's deception and manipulation.
I agree.
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Alfissti
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(Original post by Rational Thinker)
While I agree with some of your policies number three. The others sound like the word type of crony capitalism . Do you think it will be crooks alone that governments conduct surveillance upon? It opens the door to fascism.
The only type of capitalism that remains today in much of the world is none other than crony capitalism. True forms of capitalism died long ago though some form of freer markets are slowly making a comeback.

I'm sure crooks won't be the only ones spied upon, however as resources isn't quite as vast as we think it is I doubt surveillance and monitoring will be done on anyone other than crooks and potential terrorist. Hey do you want to live in a society that we'd have to be constantly fearing of a terrorist attack or what? In order to have freedom we will have to sacrifice some freedoms. I for one have no problems with the government monitoring my phone or internet activity, I'd welcome them to as essentially I'll be having a free bodyguard.
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MatureStudent36
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We live in a parliamentary democracy that has never embraced totalitarian policies.

I therefore have huge concerns that laws are imposed on us from a distant non sovereign state that is the EU.

We are more than capable of passing our own human rights laws.
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Rational Thinker
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(Original post by Alfissti)
The only type of capitalism that remains today in much of the world is none other than crony capitalism. True forms of capitalism died long ago though some form of freer markets are slowly making a comeback.

I'm sure crooks won't be the only ones spied upon, however as resources isn't quite as vast as we think it is I doubt surveillance and monitoring will be done on anyone other than crooks and potential terrorist. Hey do you want to live in a society that we'd have to be constantly fearing of a terrorist attack or what? In order to have freedom we will have to sacrifice some freedoms. I for one have no problems with the government monitoring my phone or internet activity, I'd welcome them to as essentially I'll be having a free bodyguard.
So you're happy for a government which has wasted resources and time spying on Student Unions, time and resources which could have been used to combat actual terrorism having more power? A government that has demonstrated its past incompetence. Surely this is a recipe for crude fascism?
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Alfissti
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
We live in a parliamentary democracy that has never embraced totalitarian policies.

I therefore have huge concerns that laws are imposed on us from a distant non sovereign state that is the EU.

We are more than capable of passing our own human rights laws.
Contrary to popular believe the Human Rights Act 98 has nothing to do with EU, it is mostly a codification of the ECHR which came from the Council of Europe, this isn't an EU institution which is why even Germany and to a certain extent Sweden and Norway are both relooking into their commitments towards this due to the difficulty in deporting suspected terrorist.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Alfissti)
Contrary to popular believe the Human Rights Act 98 has nothing to do with EU, it is mostly a codification of the ECHR which came from the Council of Europe, this isn't an EU institution which is why even Germany and to a certain extent Sweden and Norway are both relooking into their commitments towards this due to the difficulty in deporting suspected terrorist.
I got it mixed up, by my thought process still stands.
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Rational Thinker
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(Original post by Alfissti)
The only type of capitalism that remains today in much of the world is none other than crony capitalism. True forms of capitalism died long ago though some form of freer markets are slowly making a comeback.

I'm sure crooks won't be the only ones spied upon, however as resources isn't quite as vast as we think it is I doubt surveillance and monitoring will be done on anyone other than crooks and potential terrorist. Hey do you want to live in a society that we'd have to be constantly fearing of a terrorist attack or what? In order to have freedom we will have to sacrifice some freedoms. I for one have no problems with the government monitoring my phone or internet activity, I'd welcome them to as essentially I'll be having a free bodyguard.
I would be interested then to see what you make of this quote. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety".
Benjamin Franklin.
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