Muslim students at Queen Mary calling for a ‘right to pray’ Watch

felamaslen
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
Fair enough.

If course you are and who am I to say you don't have that right? I was just saying it was ridiculous.

I don't see how anyone other than Muslims are doing any bending over. This requires probably a few punches on the keyboard and clicks of a mouse to sort out. The only person who may get annoyed is the person responsible for locking the door after its been used. But I imagine it's all electronic now anyway.

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Well I would say that university departments have enough things to worry about, and people should be happy that they bothered to have a prayer room at all. If you really want to be religious, please keep it to yourself and don't pester others with it. That's my philosophy. So for example, I worship freedom, but I don't ask my college to provide freedom retreat rooms where I can get to be all hedonistic for an hour to indulge in my religion. I just think it's vulgar and obnoxious.
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User1310602
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(Original post by Iqbal007)



And who are you to decide if its justifiable or not.........its simply your opinion.
It's now up to the Queen Mary university to decide whether they will put back the room booking system as ít was before.......not you.

So it's theír decision and they will decide whether the ISOC needs it or not and see whether the campaign was justified and there was an actual case.
I didn’t say it is justifiable and I didn’t say it isn’t. I simply said that if the university says ‘no’, then it’s a ‘no’. Sorry mate. Even if the rooms are unused, and the university allowed usage in previous years the university can still deny the request this year.
We can’t over emphasize non-educational needs because that would undermine the primary function of university; education. How ridiculous would it be if students started calling for the lecture theater to be used for other non-educational purposes. If a uni doesn’t have a large enough gym, should students ask to use a lecture theatre as a gym? I also don’t see prayer facilities being ‘a need’ in the same sense as facilities for the disabled are a need. Not being able to pray does not interfere with the students learning.
Mosques ask for donations every Ramadan, every Eid, every Friday after prayers, online, on Muslim television channels etc. claiming that they’ll use it to expand facilities because there is inadequate space. Every time I entered the mosque (when I used to be Muslim) I would get asked to donate. And now you’re telling me they’re all using the money to pay for bills! Mosques need to try harder to meet the needs of their people.
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itsmyname
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They're paying for it, they're the customers; Universities are businesses and they need to cater for all their "customers" to keep the cash coming in
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interact
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(Original post by felamaslen)
Well I would say that university departments have enough things to worry about, and people should be happy that they bothered to have a prayer room at all. If you really want to be religious, please keep it to yourself and don't pester others with it. That's my philosophy. So for example, I worship freedom, but I don't ask my college to provide freedom retreat rooms where I can get to be all hedonistic for an hour to indulge in my religion. I just think it's vulgar and obnoxious.
I find its vulgar and obnoxious when people spend hours in a gym to make them self look better. I wouldn't stop them from being provided with gym facilities however.

I really don't see what the issue is. People have checked that at those times the lecture rooms are empty, so what's the problem if Muslims use it for Friday prayers?

Totalitarian secularism, things are only going to get much worse for religious people.
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419
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The attitude on here is very worrying. It looks like a lot of people have used it as a reason to go on some Islam bashing diatribe.

Oh herp derp those damn moosies want special treatment.

No, they're not asking for a room to be given to them. They're asking fur them to be allowed to use rooms that they've been using before.

I can't see how you can be in the uni's side here.

(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So you're telling me the ISOC, in London, can't find a suitable venue within the vicinity to rent out? Or a mosque within that area within a few minutes walk?

You say empty, but most organisations book out rooms for longer than they are needed to accommodate late arrivals, events which overrun, etc.
Why should they pay money when there's a FREE room available which they've been using for years.

Are you even in uni? Do you know how room booking works?


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Steevee
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If I was part of the Atheist Soc there I'd book the room for the same time :mmm:
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felamaslen
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(Original post by interact)
I find its vulgar and obnoxious when people spend hours in a gym to make them self look better. I wouldn't stop them from being provided with gym facilities however.

I really don't see what the issue is. People have checked that at those times the lecture rooms are empty, so what's the problem if Muslims use it for Friday prayers?

Totalitarian secularism, things are only going to get much worse for religious people.
"Totalitarian secularism" - like a cold fire or a tiny elephant. Impossible in other words. Secularism lives and breathes freedom - that, or it is not being done right.

I'm not talking about "stopping" people from doing anything as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about who should or should not be gracious and where responsibilities actually exist or do not exist. I don't think universities have any obligation to provide prayer rooms to anybody (and neither do they have an obligation to provide gyms by the way), given that the university's purpose is to educate people, not provide every aspect of their chosen way of life for them. If people want to pray, let them pray, I have no problem with it. But I do have a problem with people who expect the whole world to tirelessly accommodate their way of life (rather than tolerate it, which is what free societies do have an obligation to do). So to expand on your analogy with the gyms, if I felt I had a need to lift weights and do my exercises five times a day for example, I would not expect my college to let me use their lecture space for it, and neither should you.
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by felamaslen)
Well I would say that university departments have enough things to worry about, and people should be happy that they bothered to have a prayer room at all. If you really want to be religious, please keep it to yourself and don't pester others with it. That's my philosophy. So for example, I worship freedom, but I don't ask my college to provide freedom retreat rooms where I can get to be all hedonistic for an hour to indulge in my religion. I just think it's vulgar and obnoxious.
I can see you're a bit of an idealist, and therefore not really living in the real world.

In sure it's not a big deal. It's a small price to pay when so many of their students are Muslims and are all paying at least nine thousand pounds a year.

I dont see why you would remove people's freedom to pray and gather. I might have lost my culture and traditions of I didn't regularly go to mandir at a young age. Maybe some Muslims feel the same way. Religion has existed for a long time, Islam has existed for 1400 years, it's quite well established now. I dont think worship of freedom is.

It just looks like you're saying "i dont do it and I dont like it therefore you shouldn't be allowed to do it"

That's childish. If they were asking the university to spend money, i'd be completely against it. But they aren't, it's simple. Why be inhumane and tell them to pray outside?

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felamaslen
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
I can see you're a bit of an idealist, and therefore not really living in the real world.

In sure it's not a big deal. It's a small price to pay when so many of their students are Muslims and are all paying at least nine thousand pounds a year.

I dont see why you would remove people's freedom to pray and gather. I might have lost my culture and traditions of I didn't regularly go to mandir at a young age. Maybe some Muslims feel the same way. Religion has existed for a long time, Islam has existed for 1400 years, it's quite well established now. I dont think worship of freedom is.

It just looks like you're saying "i dont do it and I dont like it therefore you shouldn't be allowed to do it"

That's childish. If they were asking the university to spend money, i'd be completely against it. But they aren't, it's simple. Why be inhumane and tell them to pray outside?

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I'm not talking about removing anybody's freedom, don't you see? People aren't born with the human right to use other people's property to pray. If the university doesn't mind them praying in their lecture theatre (and also if the student base doesn't mind), go ahead with it, I'm not stopping them. All I'm saying is that (a) the people in question who want to use the lecture theatre to pray are being very obnoxious and privilege-seeking, and (b) the university does not have an obligation to follow up on the request (or demand, whatever it is).
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by felamaslen)
I'm not talking about removing anybody's freedom, don't you see? People aren't born with the human right to use other people's property to pray. If the university doesn't mind them praying in their lecture theatre (and also if the student base doesn't mind), go ahead with it, I'm not stopping them. All I'm saying is that (a) the people in question who want to use the lecture theatre to pray are being very obnoxious and privilege-seeking, and (b) the university does not have an obligation to follow up on the request (or demand, whatever it is).
I never even implied that, so i dont know why you are saying that. I never spoke about freedom.

Of course, the university can deny them the room to pray in and nobody can really do anything about it.

How is that obnoxious? They want a room to pray in. A group of students want a room to pray in and they are requesting their university for help.

I doubt the Islamic society would complain if the Sikh Society wanted to also use a lecture room to pray in. They are not really seeking any special privilege.

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felamaslen
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
I never even implied that, so i dont know why you are saying that. I never spoke about freedom.
I dont see why you would remove people's freedom to pray and gather.
If that doesn't constitute speaking about freedom, then what does, and why?

Of course, the university can deny them the room to pray in and nobody can really do anything about it.

How is that obnoxious? They want a room to pray in. A group of students want a room to pray in and they are requesting their university for help.

I doubt the Islamic society would complain if the Sikh Society wanted to also use a lecture room to pray in. They are not really seeking any special privilege.

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It is obnoxious because praying is not the purpose of a lecture theatre. It is obnoxious for the same reason that it would be obnoxious if a group of students were to ask the university if they could use their lecture theatre to lift weights. It's like asking somebody if you can have lunch in their bathroom.
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
If the large room is genuinely free most times when the ISOC want it and they have no problem finding somewhere else when it is booked for an event - then no problem. I just find it hard to believe that a large space like that at a major London university would be so vacant.
Well history has shown that it's factual that it is given there was previous arrangement in place. It's not unusual to find rooms free in uni. Uni have loads of rooms especially one if qm size plus the room as mentioned by the other poster is more catered for plays etc.


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(Original post by felamaslen)
If that doesn't constitute speaking about freedom, then what does, and why?



It is obnoxious because praying is not the purpose of a lecture theatre. It is obnoxious for the same reason that it would be obnoxious if a group of students were to ask the university if they could use their lecture theatre to lift weights. It's like asking somebody if you can have lunch in their bathroom.
The logical fallacy in this cheerishing. Yep, you don't live in the real world. Do you even uni? Because I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.

To go without whirlwind analogy, yes you can do those thing in lecture theatres as long as you don't cause damage or make it inappropriate for others to use.

Lectures theatres aren't just for lectures. Anyone that's gone uni knows that.


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Ggmu!
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(Original post by felamaslen)
If that doesn't constitute speaking about freedom, then what does, and why?



It is obnoxious because praying is not the purpose of a lecture theatre. It is obnoxious for the same reason that it would be obnoxious if a group of students were to ask the university if they could use their lecture theatre to lift weights. It's like asking somebody if you can have lunch in their bathroom.
Oh yeah I kind of did say that lol. Sorry.

I give up with you. It's just not real life.

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felamaslen
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(Original post by 419)
The logical fallacy in this cheerishing. Yep, you don't live in the real world. Do you even uni? Because I can tell you don't know what you're talking about.

To go without whirlwind analogy, yes you can do those thing in lecture theatres as long as you don't cause damage or make it inappropriate for others to use.

Lectures theatres aren't just for lectures. Anyone that's gone uni knows that.


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Nah I don't go to university - not yet, anyway, will do in 2014 though, and maybe I'll see what you mean then
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Dragonfly07
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(Original post by Vian)
Local mosques usually wouldn't work as their hours are usually not convenient for us, so we would end up missing parts of/entire lectures.
If your praying time clashes with mosque hours then why not protest to the mosques rather than to the university.

If so many students need to pray at that particular time then surely the mosque should be happy to change the time?
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(Original post by Dragonfly07)
If your praying time clashes with mosque hours then why not protest to the mosques rather than to the university.

If so many students need to pray at that particular time then surely the mosque should be happy to change the time?
Obviously because the mosque caters to more than just students and uni caters to just students.

Plus prayer times aren't suppose to be something you decide.




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finnthehuman
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Agreed. I think this story is more about rebellious students trying to be confrontational as part of a phase rather than a 'Muslim' thing.

Excuse my ignorance, but as Muslim student, wouldn't you engage with the local mosque? Or would you expect the university prayer facility to be the main focus of worship?
I go college but I usually do wudu(ablution) in the mosque and pray there. But my and a mate did it once, in the alton towers infront of everyone lol, it's a good way of spreading the message also.
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Pessimisterious
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I just don't understand this dogmatic requirement to... 'pray'... at a specific time of the day, in a big group, together.

Sorry I just can't stand the herd mentality that religion represents.

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Dragonfly07
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(Original post by 419)
Obviously because the mosque caters to more than just students and uni caters to just students.

Plus prayer times aren't suppose to be something you decide.




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A mosque caters to Muslims. Uni caters to student. I hope you can see how Muslim students should go to university for their student issues but to their mosque for their Islam issues.

I know prayer times can't be decided but it seems like all the students unanimously move the prayer time to a different slot just to suit their studies. Because prayer time is moved so commonly by the Muslim students to suit lectures, it makes sense that one of the many mosques in the area should make special arrangements for student praying space in between lectures.
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