Muslim students at Queen Mary calling for a ‘right to pray’ Watch

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#61
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#61
(Original post by Dragonfly07)
A mosque caters to Muslims. Uni caters to student. I hope you can see how Muslim students should go to university for their student issues but to their mosque for their Islam issues.
So if you've got personal issue, don't mention it to uni? If you've got money issue, only take it to the bank? You sound like another one that hasn't been to uni. Uni doesn't just cater to education it caters to everything about student lifestyle. That's why majority of them focus on it as one of their selling points.

The underlying issue here is that a room is seemingly free and they're been told they can't use it because it's not free; which is contradictory to what people have witnessed. This could happen to the debate club, atheist club, etc. This isn't just an Islam thing but just like a lot of people here, you've focusing on that so that you can Islam bash.

They're entitled to use the room if it's free for whatever purposes they want as king as it's not damaging to the room, illegal etc and they book it. The exorbitant tuition fee entitled them to that.


I know prayer times can't be decided but it seems like all the students unanimously move the prayer time to a different slot just to suit their studies. Because prayer time is moved so commonly by the Muslim students to suit lectures, it makes sense that one of the many mosques in the area should make special arrangements for student praying space in between lectures.
True for other prayers but Friday prayers is one that people invariably try to do on time. And again, with focusing on the time, you're ignoring the underlying issue.




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Dragonfly07
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#62
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(Original post by 419)
So if you've got personal issue, don't mention it to uni? If you've got money issue, only take it to the bank? You sound like another one that hasn't been to uni. Uni doesn't just cater to education it caters to everything about student lifestyle. That's why majority of them focus on it as one of their selling points.

The underlying issue here is that a room is seemingly free and they're been told they can't use it because it's not free; which is contradictory to what people have witnessed. This could happen to the debate club, atheist club, etc. This isn't just an Islam thing but just like a lot of people here, you've focusing on that so that you can Islam bash.

They're entitled to use the room if it's free for whatever purposes they want as king as it's not damaging to the room, illegal etc and they book it. The exorbitant tuition fee entitled them to that.



True for other prayers but Friday prayers is one that people invariably try to do on time.
The university isn't obliged to give you the room whether it's free or not. Sure you're allowed to come to uni for advice on absolutely anything.

I came to my university for financial advice. But if I told my uni that my financial requirements were x amount of money then they can give me advice about how to get that money, but they're not obliged to give me that money in any way. If I started complaining everywhere about how the uni doesn't give me free money people would get ANNOYED at me.

Same applies to spare rooms. Just **** off, no one owes you anything. Your religion is not special. You should have no special privileges just because you're Muslim. Solve your own problems.
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(Original post by Pessimisterious)
I just don't understand this dogmatic requirement to... 'pray'... at a specific time of the day, in a big group, together.

Sorry I just can't stand the herd mentality that religion represents.

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I'm sure there's something you do at specific time that's likely to be more nonsensical.



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(Original post by Dragonfly07)
The university isn't obliged to give you the room whether it's free or not. Sure you're allowed to come to uni for advice on absolutely anything.

I came to my university for financial advice. But if I told my uni that my financial requirements were x amount of money then they can give me advice about how to get that money, but they're not obliged to give me that money in any way. If I started complaining everywhere about how the uni doesn't give me free money people would get ANNOYED at me.

Same applies to spare rooms. Just **** off, no one owes you anything. Your religion is not special. You should have no special privileges just because you're Muslim. Solve your own problems.
Like I said, Islam bashing at its finest. Actually the uni is obliged to give them the room. If not, why did they come up with the excuse that the room is not free when it is. Why's there a booking system in place to book room?

On the finance point, no the must uni actual make an effort to help student and wouldn't turn you away if it's a reasonable request. I know many that've been helped that way.

Oh but they're not asking for special treatment. Can you not read? Your attitude us archaic.


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....
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Pessimisterious
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(Original post by 419)
I'm sure there's something you do at specific time that's likely to be more nonsensical.
Yeah but I don't impose my needs as a burden to others.

And believe me, I certainly would not kick up a fuss over my desire for a place to pray. I'd find a quiet (or not) place and just do it. Simple.



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Psyk
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I don't think they have a right to be given somewhere to pray by the university, but at the same time it sounds like a reasonable request. Surely there's some room they could use that isn't needed at that particular time? Don't see what harm that could cause.
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(Original post by Pessimisterious)
Yeah but I don't impose my needs as a burden to others.

And believe me, I certainly would not kick up a fuss over my desire for a place to pray. I'd find a quiet (or not) place and just do it. Simple.



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How are they imposing their believes and burdening others by wanting to use a free room?

I've yet to see a point made in favour of the uni that isn't your innate islamaphobe point.


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(Original post by 419)
How are the imposing their believes and burdening others by wanting to use a free room?

I've yet to see a point made in favour of the uni that isn't your innate islamaphoe point.


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They're demanding the weekly use of a major university room for the rest of the year, just so they can spend a few minutes mumbling to an imaginary being.

I'm not islamophobic, I'm anti-theist.

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Al-Mudaari
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It's tough being a Muslim in Britain...
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kka25
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(Original post by The Angry Stoic)
I require a 100m area to spread instant tagliatelle across in order to please His noodlieness. Will the university provide?
It must be huge enough for the meatballs too! :mad:

(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Their actions normally just end up p*ssing people off. I used to have A muslim guy who used to work for me. Every couple of hours he'd disappear to the store room to pray. No hassle. No drama. Just did what needed to do.
You're ok with that?
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The Angry Stoic
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(Original post by Al-Mudaari)
It's tough being a Muslim in Britain...
Indeed. Your hand must get tired from pulling out the victim card so much.
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Iqbal007
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(Original post by shouldbestudying)
I didn’t say it is justifiable and I didn’t say it isn’t. I simply said that if the university says ‘no’, then it’s a ‘no’. Sorry mate. Even if the rooms are unused, and the university allowed usage in previous years the university can still deny the request this year.
We can’t over emphasize non-educational needs because that would undermine the primary function of university; education. How ridiculous would it be if students started calling for the lecture theater to be used for other non-educational purposes. If a uni doesn’t have a large enough gym, should students ask to use a lecture theatre as a gym? I also don’t see prayer facilities being ‘a need’ in the same sense as facilities for the disabled are a need. Not being able to pray does not interfere with the students learning.
Mosques ask for donations every Ramadan, every Eid, every Friday after prayers, online, on Muslim television channels etc. claiming that they’ll use it to expand facilities because there is inadequate space. Every time I entered the mosque (when I used to be Muslim) I would get asked to donate. And now you’re telling me they’re all using the money to pay for bills! Mosques need to try harder to meet the needs of their people.
Yes the university has said "no"...........but that doesn't mean its a "no" forever......whats the point of a campaign, etc so that the people in authority over turn their original decision. It's happened before, but they renegaded on the original deal and every avenue has been spent.

As stated before "universities" are far more than simply the educational needs of the future generation, a lot more........university is there to provide for every aspect of what student life should be, hence why they have shops, accommodation, societies, etc on campus so that their educational experience is easier, so that they get the most out of their education.

And again the isoc wants to book a room for an hour every friday not forever :facepalm: nor is it a "lecture theater ", they are simply a large hall with books called the octagon and another is a drama theater. Those halls aren't even used for educational purposes.

And actually yes it does interfere with their learning very much so, because they'll leave campus looking around for a place to pray, more time wasted, so they'll miss their lectures, etc.

Also students are essentially paying customers, if you had to pay £9,000 i'd expect a lot.......and then lets not forget the fact QM has the largest Muslim population of students of any university, a large chunk of money comes from their tuition fees.

Of course, what else are the donations used for......they are generally used to pay for the mosques bills, activities........there are actually very few Mosques which are able to expand....they can't exactly raise money and expand, that's just sheer stupidity as thats not how the system works. If a mosque has planning permission to expand, then they can actually go ahead and raise funds, The proportion of mosques which are raising money to expand is such a small minority.
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(Original post by Pessimisterious)
They're demanding the weekly use of a major university room for the rest of the year, just so they can spend a few minutes mumbling to an imaginary being.

I'm not islamophobic, I'm anti-theist.

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Since the room isn't in use at the time what's the issue.

Again, are you just spouting spiel without knowing the full detail. Because, they've been using said room in previous years without a problem.


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tehforum
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(Original post by techno-thriller)
All the Muslims needs must be catered for whatever the situation.
That definitely wasn't an ill-informed view of a Muslim speaking.
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#76
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(Original post by Iqbal007)
Yes the university has said "no"...........but that doesn't mean its a "no" forever......whats the point of a campaign, etc so that the people in authority over turn their original decision. It's happened before, but they renegaded on the original deal and every avenue has been spent.

As stated before "universities" are far more than simply the educational needs of the future generation, a lot more........university is there to provide for every aspect of what student life should be, hence why they have shops, accommodation, societies, etc on campus so that their educational experience is easier, so that they get the most out of their education.

And again the isoc wants to book a room for an hour every friday not forever :facepalm: nor is it a "lecture theater ", they are simply a large hall with books called the octagon and another is a drama theater. Those halls aren't even used for educational purposes.

And actually yes it does interfere with their learning very much so, because they'll leave campus looking around for a place to pray, more time wasted, so they'll miss their lectures, etc.

Also students are essentially paying customers, if you had to pay £9,000 i'd expect a lot.......and then lets not forget the fact QM has the largest Muslim population of students of any university, a large chunk of money comes from their tuition fees.

Of course, what else are the donations used for......they are generally used to pay for the mosques bills, activities........there are actually very few Mosques which are able to expand....they can't exactly raise money and expand, that's just sheer stupidity as thats not how the system works. If a mosque has planning permission to expand, then they can actually go ahead and raise funds, The proportion of mosques which are raising money to expand is such a small minority.
Campaigning for this particular cause is preposterous. From their Facebook page I can see just how overly emotionally Queen Mary Isoc have become over the situation. The Muslim students need to calm down and focus on their studying rather than painting banners with the words ‘right to pray’. Having the freedom to practice your religion is a right, and Muslim students at QM clearly still have this right. They have the freedom to go to the local mosque if they want to or pray anywhere on campus.
Surely gyms, accommodation and shops on campus contribute to the student’s wellbeing but I seriously doubt praying plays a role in this or in improving the student’s educational experience.
Ok, you’re asking to use a large hall and drama theatre EVERY hour, on EVERY Friday, FOREVER.Surely such spacious rooms could be required for other uses one Friday evening. Muslims would have a panic attack if one week they are told they can’t hold their prayers there and perhaps this is why the university has given you an outright ‘no’ to avoid the hassle.
It’s NOT a necessary interference in the same way a disability is and therefore access to a prayer room onsite is NOT a NEED like how disabled facilities are a NEED. You have the CHOICE to not go to the mosque so your education isn’t adversely affected.
Just because mosques can’t cater for their people, it doesn’t mean Muslims should turn to other non-religious public institutions to accommodate for them. Focus your campaign on obtaining planning permission for mosques. Mosques all over the UK complain of insufficient space (interestingly I don't hear any temples, or gurdwaras doing this), so what other public institutions will have to provide for prayer space in the future?
Students all over the UK are paying £9000, not just the Muslims at Queen Mary. It’s primarily spent on EDUCATION; you’re paying for a course. How inconvenient would it be if using the pretext of ‘I’m paying £9000’ students all over the UK began asking for non-educational facilities?

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(Original post by Al-Mudaari)
It's tough being a Muslim in Britain...
It's tougher being an ex Muslim near Muslims in Britain.
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Straight up G
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419 is actually annihilating everyone in this thread.
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tammie123
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#79
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As a Muslim some of the comments on this thread are making me feel sad
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Truefaith
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They could go to another place nearby or as someone said just go outside. They have a room so the uni has done something.


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