Turn on thread page Beta

The EU watch

  • View Poll Results: Should the UK remain in the EU?
    Yes!
    53.49%
    No!
    46.51%

    • Section Leader
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Section Leader
    Since it's a talking point, I figured I'd see what the lovely folks here on TSR think about the UK's status in the EU.

    Do you think the UK should remain in the EU? Or do you believe it's time we pulled out of it?

    Thought it could spark up a nice discussion since I'm sure we'll have a fair mix of Eurolovers and Euroskeptics here.

    Oh and I'll throw in a nice picture cause everyone likes pictures.
    Attached Images
     
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Wow. Another thread. Great.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    No, they cocked it up, try again in year 2100, our futures going to be grim now anyway.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    How the hell should we know? Arguements both for and against our membership in the EU are far too emotional / theoretical, and i'm not sure how anyone could form a 'yes/no' opinion given that there is hardly any factual reasoning in the debate.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    My answer is: it depends.

    I support the EU's intentions and I find most things written about it are shrill conspiracy theories, but it is a grossly inefficient beast.

    However, many of those inefficiencies are part and parcel of it being an intergovernmental institution. To remove them would require further integration which I wouldn't support.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    There are several issues to consider, personally I don't think any party has ever come up with a study that independently studies the true effects of a withdrawal and on the same coin the benefits of being in the EU as all studies done were mostly conducted by a pro of each side. Before I truly make a stand, I'd like to see a study done by a team of academics from Cambridge, Oxford, ICL, UCL and LSE on the issue. I think at this moment in time too many people are simply making a blind stand, too many simply think EU will disappear from their life upon withdrawal, there won't be an abolishment of the EU with a UK withdrawal, if anything that institution will get much stronger and much more integrated as there would no longer be a strong voice for dissent within it, there won't be a 2 or 3 speed EU any longer after that. Personally I think EU needs to enact lots of reforms and at this moment in time only UK and Germany has the clout to even suggest it, if UK were to stand on stage and direct it towards reform rather than be on the side-lines. As of now, I think there should be a referendum but before that I'd like to see some clear strategy of what each party intends to do should there be a vote to withdraw, if it is merely going to be rejoining the EEA or EFTA then what exactly is the point?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Alfissti)
    There are several issues to consider, personally I don't think any party has ever come up with a study that independently studies the true effects of a withdrawal and on the same coin the benefits of being in the EU as all studies done were mostly conducted by a pro of each side. Before I truly make a stand, I'd like to see a study done by a team of academics from Cambridge, Oxford, ICL, UCL and LSE on the issue. I think at this moment in time too many people are simply making a blind stand, too many simply think EU will disappear from their life upon withdrawal, there won't be an abolishment of the EU with a UK withdrawal, if anything that institution will get much stronger and much more integrated as there would no longer be a strong voice for dissent within it, there won't be a 2 or 3 speed EU any longer after that. Personally I think EU needs to enact lots of reforms and at this moment in time only UK and Germany has the clout to even suggest it, if UK were to stand on stage and direct it towards reform rather than be on the side-lines. As of now, I think there should be a referendum but before that I'd like to see some clear strategy of what each party intends to do should there be a vote to withdraw, if it is merely going to be rejoining the EEA or EFTA then what exactly is the point?
    You honestly believe that academia, particularly at Oxbridge and the London Unis, doesn't have a deeply engrained liberal bias?

    Anywhere with a bias has no place exclusively informing your opinion.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    I don't really see the point of leaving, we will still have all of the EU regulation since we will have to follow it to trade with the EU. Better to stay in and try and reform the Eu.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Depends. If it remains as it is, I would vote to withdraw.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    The EU would have to change massively for me to want to stay in it. By that I mean scrap the political side of the EU and have it solely a free trade arrangement. Which isn't going to happen.

    I'm all for economic cooperation, but the EU's political interference in the governments of member states is unacceptable. The sovereignty issue is the main reason we should leave the EU and just have a free trade agreement. I don't see why over 70% of our laws should be decided by a foreign body.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    I didn't sign up for an anti-democracy socialist federation.
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    'In'.

    The EU to me is right now structurally flawed with the parliament having no primacy over the commission let alone the council, in addition the Eurozone was poorly implemented with no multinational of debt or a body to enforce fiscal discipline. With that being said remaining in the EU is i believe a superior option to the alternatives on the basis that our size gives us a considerable influence and on some issues we do form a voting block with the likes of Germany, Finland and the Netherlands, this has in recent years aided in the push for trade agreements with the likes of Singapore and now the US.

    Regarding the other two options available (EFTA or Pure free trade agreement) i believe that EFTA is possibly the worst solution imaginable as we have no influence but accept 70% of all regulations in return for maintaining free movement of capital, goods and labour. Frankly i'd rather accept the other 30% and have influence. Of the second pure free trade agreement there are some advantages to this potentially (greater control over immigration and tax avoidance being two) however there are also a multitude of issues even assuming the two mentioned provided net benefit to the UK in that the CBI estimates it would take 9 years to conduct a similar number of free trade agreements as Switzerland has which in economic terms is a lengthy period, our trade agreements by virtue of economic size would likely be inferior in comparison to those negotiated by the EU (look at how many laws the USA and EU are willing to change to push this through) and finally (and perhaps most importantly) the UK currently does not trade anywhere near as efficiently as it could or should, in the BRIC nations we are outtraded by France and (by double) Germany, across Africa and South America Belgium and the Netherlands even manage to out-do us so it's not like a lack of free trade is holding us back in emerging markets, the fact is that we don't have the export capacity.

    In conclusion, despite the structural flaws and half measures i must conclude that EU membership is a superior alternative given that there is currently no more viable market of which we could be a member. Those wanting the UK to leave should come back to me when the Anglo-sphere calls for union.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Negotiate better terms for us. Germany throws its weight around, so we can too. If the EU doesn't agree, we leave, then can rejoin when they realise that we are such a major contributor and offer us better terms.

    We pump in money, political clout and provide jobs and benefits for many who would be unemployed and/or sick in their home countries. Of course we're worth a lot to the EU, and of course we can be more demanding than the many countries who are a net drain on the EU.
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hopple)
    Negotiate better terms for us. Germany throws its weight around, so we can too. If the EU doesn't agree, we leave, then can rejoin when they realise that we are such a major contributor and offer us better terms.

    We pump in money, political clout and provide jobs and benefits for many who would be unemployed and/or sick in their home countries. Of course we're worth a lot to the EU, and of course we can be more demanding than the many countries who are a net drain on the EU.
    See this attitude to some degree is why little progress has been made. It's less about us needing to make unilateral demands, what we need to do is strengthen our ties with the countries with whom we form a voting block.

    Also, stop wasting our MEP seats by voting for frigging Ukip, they do **** all and waste our money.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Looks like I put the pro-eu cause one vote up.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    See this attitude to some degree is why little progress has been made. It's less about us needing to make unilateral demands, what we need to do is strengthen our ties with the countries with whom we form a voting block.

    Also, stop wasting our MEP seats by voting for frigging Ukip, they do **** all and waste our money.
    We give far more to the EU than most other countries, and receive little if any more in return. Anyone can see this, including the other members of the EU. Germany uses its financial clout to get its way despite being more invested in the future of the EU than we are, so we definitely can push for a better deal.

    We have been wasting our time avoiding the issue, and the sooner we sort it out and know where we stand the better.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    See this attitude to some degree is why little progress has been made. It's less about us needing to make unilateral demands, what we need to do is strengthen our ties with the countries with whom we form a voting block.

    Also, stop wasting our MEP seats by voting for frigging Ukip, they do **** all and waste our money.
    I'm voting for UKIP. They speak for me. I don't consider them a waste of money. On the contrary I think they're worth more than all the other UK MEPs put together.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    'In'.

    The EU to me is right now structurally flawed with the parliament having no primacy over the commission let alone the council, in addition the Eurozone was poorly implemented with no multinational of debt or a body to enforce fiscal discipline. With that being said remaining in the EU is i believe a superior option to the alternatives on the basis that our size gives us a considerable influence and on some issues we do form a voting block with the likes of Germany, Finland and the Netherlands, this has in recent years aided in the push for trade agreements with the likes of Singapore and now the US.

    Regarding the other two options available (EFTA or Pure free trade agreement) i believe that EFTA is possibly the worst solution imaginable as we have no influence but accept 70% of all regulations in return for maintaining free movement of capital, goods and labour. Frankly i'd rather accept the other 30% and have influence. Of the second pure free trade agreement there are some advantages to this potentially (greater control over immigration and tax avoidance being two) however there are also a multitude of issues even assuming the two mentioned provided net benefit to the UK in that the CBI estimates it would take 9 years to conduct a similar number of free trade agreements as Switzerland has which in economic terms is a lengthy period, our trade agreements by virtue of economic size would likely be inferior in comparison to those negotiated by the EU (look at how many laws the USA and EU are willing to change to push this through) and finally (and perhaps most importantly) the UK currently does not trade anywhere near as efficiently as it could or should, in the BRIC nations we are outtraded by France and (by double) Germany, across Africa and South America Belgium and the Netherlands even manage to out-do us so it's not like a lack of free trade is holding us back in emerging markets, the fact is that we don't have the export capacity.
    We have minimal influence in the EU, the rest of Europe has more influence over us and we regularly put up with laws which originate from the rest of Europe.
    What's more, EFTA members are fully consulted on EU laws before they come into effect. The big difference is those countries remain sovereign nations, unlike EU members whose laws are imposed by an unelected foreign body.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    See this attitude to some degree is why little progress has been made. It's less about us needing to make unilateral demands, what we need to do is strengthen our ties with the countries with whom we form a voting block.

    Also, stop wasting our MEP seats by voting for frigging Ukip, they do **** all and waste our money.
    Rubbish. UKIP MEPs have done quite a lot, supporting campaigns and UKIP MEPs brought significant attention to the EU's absolutely horrible expenses system which functions much worse than our own expenses system in the UK. UKIP MEPs have been a lot more useful than MEPs from other parties, and it is the EU which really wastes our money.
    UKIP does not have MEPs so it can fix the EU, they want to use the position to bring attention to the EU's major flaws (of which there are many) and gain more support to eventually leave. I think they're doing a pretty good job of that.
 
 
 
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.