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    (Original post by Phillip)
    group hug
    no i'd rather hug myself than hug a large group of people :p:
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    Thud's back in town puppies!



    What's all this "Marxism"? A Marxism society started by a REFORMIST? :eek:

    Have you read Marx, Demondemonic?

    I refer especially to the bits about "smashing" the state and the fact he writes, in the very last preface to the Communist Manifesto that "[The Commune] demonstrated in particular that ‘the working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machine, and deploy it for its own purposes"

    and in a letter to Kugelmann (1871):
    "The next attempt at the French Revolution will not be…but to smash it(Marx’s italics, in the original German: zerbrechen), and this is the prerequisite for every real people’s revolution on the continent"

    Interesting that a "Marxist" would go against what Marx himself wrote!
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    I withdraw my application to join this society, I refuse to be a part of a society led by a reformist, reactionist, nordic-supremacist racist, non-marxist.


    you filthy hypocritical idiot. I see why you're in with the Fabians now. :mad:
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    (Original post by Thud)
    I withdraw my application to join this society, I refuse to be a part of a society led by a reformist, reactionist, nordic-supremacist racist, non-marxist.


    you filthy hypocritical idiot. I see why you're in with the Fabians now. :mad:
    well said...he's far far worse than you...
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    nordic:confused: lol very confused. You no what, I never thought id ever say this but good luck with your revolution. D
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    Maybe you can quote for me where Marx says that we need to "reform" the system rather than "smash" it?

    Good luck with that.



    Marxist? you? don't make me laugh, racist.

    *cough*
    "the working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machine, and deploy it for its own purposes"
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    (Original post by Phillip)
    i think that Marxism is a system that, if it worked, would result in a utopian society.
    but i am not sure what purpose capitalism has apart from the minority accumulating all the welath, which does not seem a worthy cause.
    people cannot say that capitalism is natural, because capitalism is about money, which is unnatural.
    people say that communism has not yet worked, but neither has capitalism, just look at the rates of poverty, present in every country.
    in my opinion, money must be eliminated from this world, and humans can forget their selfish materialistic needs that fuel their superficial and shallow capitalist lives.
    How is communism natural? You imply that with capitalism being unnatural, communism is natural, yet, surely, through a natural order, no one institution would distribute resources to everyone, would they?

    What many of these "Marxists" seem to be forgetting is that even Karl Marx acknowledged that the free market was the most efficient economic system. All his qualms were to do with opression of the proletariat. So, I ask the Marxists this: would Marx be satisfied with a seemingly more humane free market system? Secondly, most of you Marxists are in the United Kingdom, a capitalist nation. Surely you go against your fundementals by partaking in the buying of food. Shouldn't you all be growing it and unselfishly be giving it away or something?
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    (Original post by Jasundie)
    Secondly, most of you Marxists are in the United Kingdom, a capitalist nation. Surely you go against your fundementals by partaking in the buying of food. Shouldn't you all be growing it and unselfishly be giving it away or something?
    Allow me to quote because I'm too tired to think :p:

    Marxists "demand the preparation of the proletariat for revolution through use of the modern state" - V.I.Lenin.

    growing our own food and giving it away etc would be all very nice but fact is we live in capitalist society and so have to make use of it as it currently stands.
    Someone else's blog on the matter:
    http://riotersblock.blogspot.com/200...how-often.html
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    (Original post by Thud)
    Allow me to quote because I'm too tired to think :p:

    Marxists "demand the preparation of the proletariat for revolution through use of the modern state" - V.I.Lenin.

    growing our own food and giving it away etc would be all very nice but fact is we live in capitalist society and so have to make use of it as it currently stands.
    Someone else's blog on the matter:
    http://riotersblock.blogspot.com/200...how-often.html
    Surely, though, charity starts at home? Is it really impossible to start your own society within the country, although it would be illegal, wouldn't that be a revolution?
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    (Original post by Jasundie)
    Surely, though, charity starts at home? Is it really impossible to start your own society within the country, although it would be illegal, wouldn't that be a revolution?
    no, a revolution requires the state to be "smashed" (zerbrechen) and a new, temporary one to be created, because otherwise the revolution, and eventual transition to communism, will fail. It also needs a majority behind it to succeed.


    oh and btw - there appear to be two sorts of "Marxists" (and I use the term very loosely here!) in this thread. There's the Marxists (ie. the ones who follow Marx) and there's the reformists (the ones who skew what Marx wrote).
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    (Original post by Thud)
    no, a revolution requires the state to be "smashed" (zerbrechen) and a new, temporary one to be created, because otherwise the revolution, and eventual transition to communism, will fail. It also needs a majority behind it to succeed.


    oh and btw - there appear to be two sorts of "Marxists" (and I use the term very loosely here!) in this thread. There's the Marxists (ie. the ones who follow Marx) and there's the reformists (the ones who skew what Marx wrote).
    But both are combined by their cluelessness and lack of pragmatism.
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    (Original post by zxczxc)
    But both are combined by their cluelessness and lack of pragmatism.
    come back when you have a clue, little boy. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Thud)
    come back when you have a clue, little boy. :rolleyes:
    Look at history: Marxism hasn't worked. Look at nature: capitalism is just like evolution, ensuring the survival of the fittest.
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    (Original post by Thud)
    come back when you have a clue, little boy. :rolleyes:
    Well, a transistion from the 'invisible hand' of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations to Marx's command economy seems to end up in the same area. People tend to end up in the mercy of something out of their control. However, the difference between the two, it seems, is that Smith's invisble hand, or the free market forces, lead to maximum efficiency, whereas a despotic command economy seems, for example in the Soviet Union, to fail. For all intents and purposes, I feel zxczxc may have a point.
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    (Original post by zxczxc)
    Look at history: Marxism hasn't worked. Look at nature: capitalism is just like evolution, ensuring the survival of the fittest.
    We've never had Marxism.

    And look at Marxism - natural progression from capitalism.
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    (Original post by Thud)
    We've never had Marxism.

    And look at Marxism - natural progression from capitalism.
    It cannot really be said to be natural, after all, it involes the interference of the human will, which, many would uphold, removes any 'natural' aspects to it.
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    (Original post by Thud)
    We've never had Marxism.

    And look at Marxism - natural progression from capitalism.
    But we've had Communist systems pretty close to it, and they were hardly a success. Tell me, why is marxism and marxism alone the natural progression of capitalism?
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    (Original post by zxczxc)
    Look at history: Marxism hasn't worked. Look at nature: capitalism is just like evolution, ensuring the survival of the fittest.
    Was that the same statement you submited as a reason to join the Evil soc?

    Marxism has never been applyed. Do you subscribe to libertarianism? Do you have any political leanings or are you neutral?
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    (Original post by DemonDemonic)
    Was that the same statement you submited as a reason to join the Evil soc?

    Marxism has never been applyed. Do you subscribe to libertarianism? Do you have any political leanings or are you neutral?
    I'm pretty open-minded, but I do lean towards a more libertarian viewpoint than you do: i believe in capitalism because I believe in the fundamental ability of man to decide his future and act accordingly.

    Marxism HAS been applied; all that happened was that it mutated into communism, and the horrors that that led to. Like it or not, capitalism is the lesser of two evils.
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    (Original post by zxczxc)
    I'm pretty open-minded, but I do lean towards a more libertarian viewpoint than you do: i believe in capitalism because I believe in the fundamental ability of man to decide his future and act accordingly.

    Marxism HAS been applied; all that happened was that it mutated into communism, and the horrors that that led to. Like it or not, capitalism is the lesser of two evils.
    Why do you believe that government intervention will bring about discrimination? You then advocate free enterprise. Don’t you see the incongruity? Libertarian ethos relies on greed and selfishness is this something you refute? The entire train of thought is based on subverting the weak for material gain.
 
 
 
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