Can we talk about the 40% PGCE drop out rate? Anyone here dropped out?

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Mr M
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Maid Marian)
:afraid:
Is it just this bad for secondary schools, or is primary school training just as bad?
I can't speak from personal experience but I expect it is much the same.
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Carnationlilyrose
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#22
(Original post by Maid Marian)
:afraid:
Is it just this bad for secondary schools, or is primary school training just as bad?
I have no idea about primary, I'm afraid. That said, one of the positives about secondary school teaching is the opportunity to talk to young adults who are for the most part rational human beings. I wouldn't have the patience for tiny ones.
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Maid Marian
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(Original post by Mr M)
I can't speak from personal experience but I expect it is much the same.
(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
I have no idea about primary, I'm afraid. That said, one of the positives about secondary school teaching is the opportunity to talk to young adults who are for the most part rational human beings. I wouldn't have the patience for tiny ones.
Oh dear.
:cry:
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by Maid Marian)
Oh dear.
:cry:
If you really want to do this job, you won't let a pair of grizzled veterans put you off. If you don't really want to do this job, let a pair of grizzled veterans put you off.
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Maid Marian
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#25
(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
If you really want to do this job, you won't let a pair of grizzled veterans put you off. If you don't really want to do this job, let a pair of grizzled veterans put you off.
Primary teaching is the only thing I want to do, but I think I'm far too faint-hearted :cry:
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by Maid Marian)
Primary teaching is the only thing I want to do, but I think I'm far too faint-hearted :cry:
Only experience will tell if that's the case. I do know that I couldn't do primary - you have to be the right kind of person. We can't know on here if you are that kind of person. You are right to ask yourself those questions, though. You can't be much help to a kid with problems if you are going to break down when they are suffering. You have to be the adult.
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username1170246
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#27
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#27
(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
I was completely unprepared. I had had a very sheltered education myself (all girls, private school) and had no knowledge of how tough kids can be. I was exhausted all the time, felt I was I danger of being assaulted by some of the older kids and I was, not to put too fine a point on it, not nearly a good enough teacher to deal with the situation I found myself in. I was completely wet behind the ears and despite sterling support from the head of department and the second, I really suffered.
You say this was 30 year ago. Are you still teaching now? Did you ever consider quitting at any other point in your career?
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by FilmExpert)
You say this was 30 year ago. Are you still teaching now? Did you ever consider quitting at any other point in your career?
Yes, I'm still teaching. I think about quitting every other day, but that's probably just age... I am not sure quite how I view the job. I'm lucky enough to teach in a very soft school of lovely kids, although I spent nearly 2 decades in tough comprehensives first. I do know that I couldn't possibly do the job in a tough school now - I had to get out before it finished me off. I think there's a finite time to how long you can cope in a stressful school and I'd reached my limit. I don't think I'd start my career now in a tough school, knowing how things are going. I no longer have the evangelical/idealistic streak you need to keep you plugging away at it and I certainly don't have the energy.
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username1170246
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Yeah thats within the first 2 teaching years. 40% drop out. That really scares me.

I really want to teach, but I start to ask myself, will I be more passionate and strong-willed than 40% of my peers? The answer is, I really don't know. Scary stuff.
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Carnationlilyrose
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#30
(Original post by FilmExpert)
Yeah thats within the first 2 teaching years. 40% drop out. That really scares me.

I really want to teach, but I start to ask myself, will I be more passionate and strong-willed than 40% of my peers? The answer is, I really don't know. Scary stuff.
Get as much experience as you can before committing yourself. Masses of observation in schools of all kinds.
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username1170246
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#31
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#31
(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
Yes, I'm still teaching. I think about quitting every other day, but that's probably just age... I am not sure quite how I view the job. I'm lucky enough to teach in a very soft school of lovely kids, although I spent nearly 2 decades in tough comprehensives first. I do know that I couldn't possibly do the job in a tough school now - I had to get out before it finished me off. I think there's a finite time to how long you can cope in a stressful school and I'd reached my limit. I don't think I'd start my career now in a tough school, knowing how things are going. I no longer have the evangelical/idealistic streak you need to keep you plugging away at it and I certainly don't have the energy.
Thank you for the honest response. When you were having that really horrible first year, did you tell people around you about it? Did your friends know? Did they know how hard it was for you? That you considered/consider quitting? Everyone I know in teaching seems really unhappy but never talks about it. Then I read stuff like this and wonder if it is right for me.

For me, it started as 'I don't know what else to do, it's either this secure career choice or I fleet around in minimum wage jobs or unemployment'

but since getting teaching experience it has turned into 'Hey, I can actually see myself doing this'. Now I enjoy it and want to do it. But I wonder if I have enough passion to see me through the tough times.
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moutonfou
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It's not just the PGCE drop-out rate. There is also the NQT drop-out rate. I really enjoyed my PGCE because I was never on more than a 50% timetable and was never left unsupervised with a class. I didn't even think of dropping out. I had rarely felt stressed and I was looking forward to my NQT year. Let's just say I am no longer teaching and don't intend to in the near future unless something drastically changes in the system.

I could have learnt to cope with spending at least 50% of my teaching time waging an exhausting never-ending battle against behaviour rather than teaching the subject I love, or I could have learnt to deal with the 60 hour weeks and the absence of any real work/home balance, but both together were just too much.

The PGCE was not proper preparation for a full-time teaching job. If it was the drop-out rate would be far higher.

To anybody thinking of doing a PGCE I would not say straight off 'don't do it'. There are some fantastic teachers for whom teaching was the exact right choice and it is a career with plenty of opportunities for rapid progression and the chance to change young people's lives. But never choose it as the easy option and don't under any circumstances go into teaching because 'you enjoyed school'. It is an adult career which places adult demands on you and comes with real adult stresses and performance pressure just like any other job.

Get experience of a real classroom before you apply and don't evaluate said experience based on how much you enjoyed helping little Timmy out with his maths problems or how little Sarah said you were the best visitor they had ever had and she wished you could stay forever. You are not applying to be a teaching assistant, you are applying to become a teacher and during all school experience you should watch the teacher and think 'could I stand up in front of this class and stay positive and optimistic during all the bad and ugly times as well as the good?' In short I don't want to be the embittered drop-out teacher who tells people not to bother but I do want to encourage realistic reflection on what is a career often too lightly entered!
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username1170246
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#33
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#33
(Original post by moutonfou)
It's not just the PGCE drop-out rate. There is also the NQT drop-out rate. I really enjoyed my PGCE because I was never on more than a 50% timetable and was never left unsupervised with a class. I didn't even think of dropping out. I had rarely felt stressed and I was looking forward to my NQT year. Let's just say I am no longer teaching and don't intend to in the near future unless something drastically changes in the system.
Thank you for your reply, interesting hearing about it from this perspective. A couple of Qs -

Did you have experience when you applied?

Also what are you doing with yourself now?
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Juichiro
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#34
(Original post by moutonfou)
It's not just the PGCE drop-out rate. There is also the NQT drop-out rate. I really enjoyed my PGCE because I was never on more than a 50% timetable and was never left unsupervised with a class. I didn't even think of dropping out. I had rarely felt stressed and I was looking forward to my NQT year. Let's just say I am no longer teaching and don't intend to in the near future unless something drastically changes in the system.

I could have learnt to cope with spending at least 50% of my teaching time waging an exhausting never-ending battle against behaviour rather than teaching the subject I love, or I could have learnt to deal with the 60 hour weeks and the absence of any real work/home balance, but both together were just too much.

The PGCE was not proper preparation for a full-time teaching job. If it was the drop-out rate would be far higher.

To anybody thinking of doing a PGCE I would not say straight off 'don't do it'. There are some fantastic teachers for whom teaching was the exact right choice and it is a career with plenty of opportunities for rapid progression and the chance to change young people's lives. But never choose it as the easy option and don't under any circumstances go into teaching because 'you enjoyed school'. It is an adult career which places adult demands on you and comes with real adult stresses and performance pressure just like any other job.

Get experience of a real classroom before you apply and don't evaluate said experience based on how much you enjoyed helping little Timmy out with his maths problems or how little Sarah said you were the best visitor they had ever had and she wished you could stay forever. You are not applying to be a teaching assistant, you are applying to become a teacher and during all school experience you should watch the teacher and think 'could I stand up in front of this class and stay positive and optimistic during all the bad and ugly times as well as the good?' In short I don't want to be the embittered drop-out teacher who tells people not to bother but I do want to encourage realistic reflection on what is a career often too lightly entered!
Jesus Christ, this is so depressing. I don't know what to say. I volunteer in two schools: one wonderful, the other one not that wonderful. In the wonderful school, kids are nice and while the lessons are fast paced and really dynamic, I see myself standing there delivering the lessons (which I will soon do as a volunteer ). In the not wonderful school, I see myself as more of a game changer, as a crazy optimistic which is going to show those bored kids why I think my subject is the place to be. No boring irrelevant stuff but things that make you thrill and chill and laugh and cry. If I am ever a teacher in a tough school, I will want to get those hyperactive bad-behaved kids sat down to listen in an informal way why I (not as a teacher but as a person who has been a student like them) think they should listen to what I have to say. Because what I have to say is something they will like, something they will love. I will infuse interest and motivation within them.
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Mr M
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(Original post by Juichiro)
Jesus Christ, this is so depressing. I don't know what to say. I volunteer in two schools: one wonderful, the other one not that wonderful. In the wonderful school, kids are nice and while the lessons are fast paced and really dynamic, I see myself standing there delivering the lessons (which I will soon do as a volunteer ). In the not wonderful school, I see myself as more of a game changer, as a crazy optimistic which is going to show those bored kids why I think my subject is the place to be. No boring irrelevant stuff but things that make you thrill and chill and laugh and cry. If I am ever a teacher in a tough school, I will want to get those hyperactive bad-behaved kids sat down to listen in an informal way why I (not as a teacher but as a person who has been a student like them) think they should listen to what I have to say. Because what I have to say is something they will like, something they will love. I will infuse interest and motivation within them.
I admire your unbridled enthusiasm but I am absolutely convinced you will come to eat those words. Dead Poets Society is fiction.
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Juichiro
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(Original post by Mr M)
I admire your unbridled enthusiasm but I am absolutely convinced you will come to eat those words. Dead Poets Society is fiction.
So according you, all teacher training should cease, then?
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Mr M
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(Original post by Juichiro)
So according you, all teacher training should cease, then?
Eh? Where did I say that?
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Juichiro
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(Original post by Mr M)
Eh? Where did I say that?
You were so eager to put down my optimism so I thought you had some pessimism to share with us.
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Shelly_x
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(Original post by Juichiro)
Jesus Christ, this is so depressing. I don't know what to say. I volunteer in two schools: one wonderful, the other one not that wonderful. In the wonderful school, kids are nice and while the lessons are fast paced and really dynamic, I see myself standing there delivering the lessons (which I will soon do as a volunteer ). In the not wonderful school, I see myself as more of a game changer, as a crazy optimistic which is going to show those bored kids why I think my subject is the place to be. No boring irrelevant stuff but things that make you thrill and chill and laugh and cry. If I am ever a teacher in a tough school, I will want to get those hyperactive bad-behaved kids sat down to listen in an informal way why I (not as a teacher but as a person who has been a student like them) think they should listen to what I have to say. Because what I have to say is something they will like, something they will love. I will infuse interest and motivation within them.
I love your enthusiasm but I think you have to consider that those hyper, badly behaved kids will most likely turn around and tell you to shove it and storm out of your class. Unfortunately you can't force some students to learn or to listen. And no matter how much you think they would enjoy your subject there is every likelyhood that you will be told that it is rubbish and 'why do we even have to learn this?' on a weekly, if not daily basis.
Not trying to put you down, just trying to show you the realities of state schools in England
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Mr M
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(Original post by Juichiro)
You were so eager to put down my optimism so I thought you had some pessimism to share with us.
Not at all - I was just trying to encourage you to become a little more grounded and realistic about the impact you will make and the reception you will receive. Teaching can be great but it isn't anything like the romantic picture you have painted.
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