"Immigrants are just people who used to be somewhere else"

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David_Cook
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This is a quote from Russell Brand's new stand up show that I quite found interesting.

Are immigrants essentially the same as us with the same hopes, fears and aspirations as us or are there irreconcilable differences between people from different countries?

Personally I feel that Brand's view, although popular, is an overly simplistic one that overlooks the importance of culture. Different people have different and incompatible ways of viewing the world, to prevent any unnecessary conflict it might be sensible to give them different countries so they can live according to their own unique moral codes.

Thoughts?
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The_Duck
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Although I agree, moral ideas should not be a barrier to where you live.
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David_Cook
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(Original post by The_Duck)
Although I agree, moral ideas should not be a barrier to where you live.
There was a story in the Mail today about a couple of Muslims who took it upon themselves to enforce Sharia law in parts of London by preventing people from drinking on the streets etc (I thought the police normally did this?), is it sensible to expect two groups of people, one who are strongly opposed to drink and another who don't care one way or another to live side by side in harmony?
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lucas13
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obviously
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David_Cook
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(Original post by lucas13)
obviously
I was hoping you might be able to offer a little more.
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lucas13
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(Original post by David_Cook)
I was hoping you might be able to offer a little more.
i wouldnt listen to brand, he doesnt really know what hes on about
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Jamerson
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My gut reaction is to be in agreement with Brand's statement, but it's far more complicated than simply believing that the country you have the luck to be born in shouldn't decide your life chances.

Alan Aldridge makes quite a profound point in his book 'Religion in the Contemporary World', that the problem in Britain is not Muslims - it is Islam. By that he meant that two conflicting cultures, unwilling to compromise, both think they have the complete answer as to the 'right way' to live.
And so, culture and belief clearly has an impact on the lovely idea that we can all live in harmony; different cultures will conflict, which breeds distrust and hatred, either along religious or racial grounds. I think it's a real shame, but it seems first-generation immigrants must be willing to either completely assimilate into Western culture, or stay within isolated and marginalised ethnic communities. The former - devaluing the richness multiculturalism can offer, the latter - causing increased tension between 'us' and 'them'.
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The_Duck
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(Original post by David_Cook)
There was a story in the Mail today about a couple of Muslims who took it upon themselves to enforce Sharia law in parts of London by preventing people from drinking on the streets etc (I thought the police normally did this?), is it sensible to expect two groups of people, one who are strongly opposed to drink and another who don't care one way or another to live side by side in harmony?
It seems that london is the only place where drinking on the streets is fine.

Answering your actual point, yes. I think that people should be able to see that their opinion is their opinion, and that other people should not be bound by it. Unfortunately this does not always happen. Really wish we had more sikh immigrants...
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martin jol
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(Original post by The_Duck)
It seems that london is the only place where drinking on the streets is fine.
*******s.

i drink on the street, in the park, at the bus stop, on the bus, in the car. if that makes me a sub human alcoholic then so be it, if society expects me to only drink at home or at the pub society can piss off.

:cool:

btw, immigrants are, on the whole, amazing. an absolutely essential part of any dynamic contemporary multi-cultural society.
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Snagprophet
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(Original post by David_Cook)
Personally I feel that Brand's view, although popular, is an overly simplistic one that overlooks the importance of culture. Different people have different and incompatible ways of viewing the world, to prevent any unnecessary conflict it might be sensible to give them different countries so they can live according to their own unique moral codes.
It is quite simplistic but I'd say most countries have compatible moral codes with us. I've got along with quite a lot of foreigners (non-Anglophones) and the modern world has simplified and condensed global moral codes. Obviously you're going to get people who think women should cover themselves in ridiculous things for the more extreme, to a lesser extent there's the people that aren't used to our driving laws like when I see videos in Russia. But for the most part, when you take everything that's incompatible with this country, you're pretty much left with most of the cultures of the world being compatible. That said, tribal lifestyle and spear hunting probably wouldn't work either.


(Original post by The_Duck)
It seems that london is the only place where drinking on the streets is fine.
It's actually legal to drink on streets in England. There was a segment from one of the police shows and it had some kids drinking in the car park of a Tesco and they didn't have grounds to arrest them for simply sitting on a belt-high wall drinking beers, it was more their behaviour like shouting at people and kicking Tesco property. Not that it particular affects me if we were to ban drinking in the streets in England, I just like the idea of being able to finish a drink on the way to someone's pre-drinks or house party.

No idea about Wales if their assembly opted them out, but in Northern Ireland and Scotland it's not allowed (and yes, when I went to a student party in Scotland I did drink on the street on the way to that party).
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LinzyLoo
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(Original post by Snagprophet)
It's actually legal to drink on streets in England...

...No idea about Wales if their assembly opted them out, but in Northern Ireland and Scotland it's not allowed (and yes, when I went to a student party in Scotland I did drink on the street on the way to that party).
It's allowed in Edinburgh!
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Snagprophet
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(Original post by LinzyLoo)
It's allowed in Edinburgh!
Ah, just checked wikipedia and it said:

The City of Edinburgh allows the consumption of alcohol in public places but under the Edinburgh by-law, anyone drinking in public would have to stop if asked by police.
So I imagine the police wouldn't need grounds for it in Edinburgh, whereas in England there'd have to be anti-social behaviour i.e. public disturbance.

I'm glad I saw that, makes the world seem much brighter
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Steevee
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Ah Russel Brand, as ever making pandering, over-simplified sound-bytes that appeal to Guardianistas. What's new?

Why not say 'Hong Kong is just a city like London in a different place!' Both statements are about as useful.
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Mackay
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Brand uses big words and waves his arms around a lot. But, he doesn't actually say an awful lot.
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