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    What effect will the new UCAS tariff have on university offers. Does it just mean way more offers will be made to IB students. Or does it mean offers will be reduced?
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    Basically it means any IB candidate who applies to any uni will get an offer.
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    Not according to my recent emails with John Clare, education editor of The Telegraph
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    (Original post by hic_et_ubique)
    Neither. Most universities don't give offers based on UCAS tariff points anyway.

    However, doing the IB might slightly bolster your application and make you look good (not that it doesn't do so already).
    This is a fairly accurate and objective response which I agree with.
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    (Original post by RAYPLETTS)
    Basically it means any IB candidate who applies to any uni will get an offer.
    Oh right, you wish. :rolleyes: The Editor of The Telegraph told you that? Maybe he should run for office as the new Education Secretary.
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    How many A level students are there per year?
    This year there were 32,130 students doing the diploma, and most UK unis only take diploma applicants. Of those, only a percent will be applying to the UK...
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    yeah raypletts sure :p: the telegraph is the paper that started all this anyway, well their the ones who have gone most full out on the whole check out the IB thing. i think its really wishful thinking, cos i mean according to the telegraph anyone with 30 points or above is worthy of oxbridge (3.5 A levels) and erm yeah BS :p:
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    (Original post by andy_cole2)
    No thats ridiculous. this doesnt take into account anything. the students who take the IB are genearlly cleverer than those taking A-Levels. to get a good grade students ahve to work harder in IB. consequently they will work harder if they want a good grade. Logically the number of people getting 6/7 or A/B should be about the same.

    its all psychological people think they are worth a 6, just as people think they are worth a B. they will work to a level taht means they will get that grade or be in a good position to get that grade. I do not think the same effort is required for a 6/7 in IB to a A/B in A-Level. this would not reflect in the number of people that get the grade. because the grades are not determined by the number of hours spent working for them.

    if someone is told they need AAB they'l work to get AAB just as if someone is told they need 667 they will work to get that. if someone was told they needed AAAAB from A level and someone was told tyeh needed 38 points 677 then they would work to get those things. and perhaps by that stage the work put in by an A level student would be equivelant to the work of an IB student

    those stats are not correct because they relate purely to attainment not the work around the attainment. people will naturally work to what they think they should/could/need to get. so if that requires more effort at IB than Alevels more work will be done

    With respect - that is a complete load of *******s. The many thousands who do the IB (internationally) are just cleverer than those people doing A Levels? Baloney. IB requires more work than A Levels? I don't buy it - the exams are easier.

    I should have pointed out that I was assuming the (to me blindingly obvious) assumption that in general, IBers and A Level people have negligible inherent differences in intelligence.
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    (Original post by rawkingpunkster)
    You're doing hell lot of unjustice to IB people, because our coursework is much more than A levels. A levels they just slack through tutorials, work hard for 6 months and then you can get the As. IB requires you to churn out quality work throughout the year

    Common misconception. This year, I had to do a 3000 word english coursework, a 3000 word history coursework, a 3000 word report in physics and a 2000 words investigation (with loads of number crunching/graphs) for physics as well, all for A2 coursework in three subjects. I would be amazed if IB people did much more than that (although of course willing to be proven wrong) - remember I am only talking about the second year's work. First year had more coursework.
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    Could someone let me know what exactly you have to do for a HL subject? Like, this many exams that look like this (with a link), this much coursework, etc, etc. Preferable in subjects of english, history, physics, maths, so I can compare with my own subjects. Becuase right now I am just assuming you have to do more for A Levels, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

    As purely anecdotal evidence, the sort of people I know who do IB and get around 30 are people who I would definitely think of as B students at A Level.
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    i was talking about in the UK cos thats where they offer IB and A-levels and erm for a subject like physics basically u have to have evidence of 40 hours + practical time and then u have to submit a total of one piece of write up from that. erm u have 3 exams a multiple choice, paper 2 which is the course and paper 3 which is the options paper

    http://www.asmilan.org/teachers/smor...t_for_2002.pdf

    this is the formula booklet ur supplied with. erm yeah thats physics. its sposed to be one of the hardest HL subjects u can do in IB. Sl is about the same except u only do the SL of most topics and u pick 2 options form a wider range some questions appear on both papers
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    ^^ Fair enough about the UK, but internationally the range of intelligence of people doing the IB is going to be roughly equal to those doing A Levels, right? So it makes sense to compare the percentage levels of attainment to get some idea of the relative performance, which I did.

    And the amount of stuff you have said for physics is about half as much as you have to do for A Level - so for UCAS to say a 7 at HL physics is worth more than an A in physics A Level is wrong.

    (For A Level you do 5 written papers, and 5 pieces of coursework)
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    Err, have you all actually READ the document describing how UCAS arrived at this equivalence? http://www.ucas.com/candq/tariff/ib.doc
    Expert groups - comprised of A-level and IB chief examiners, some university representatives, admissions tutors, etc - have analysed three subjects, geography, maths and chemistry, and it is their recommendations that are essentially followed. In fact, the top score was rounded DOWN from the expert assessment.

    And as for how many papers and how many pieces of coursework there are, that's not really a measure of how much work something is. But just to clarify, in all IB science subjects, you have three written papers at the end of the two years, generally lasting about 5 hours in total (in chemistry in particular, 1 hour Paper 1 multiple choice, 2 h 15 min Paper 2 essay-type questions on the core material, 1 h 15 min Paper 3 essay-type questions on Options; I don't know about physics). All taken on one afternoon and the next morning, and not modularly like A-levels. (Modular courses are bound to have, overall, more but easier examinations, due to the very nature of modular exams.)
    As for coursework/internal assessment, these include at least 40 hours of practicals; generally you will have to write a report for each, though it may not be assessed on all the criteria. There must be (or at least at my school they wanted that) at least one report which can be assessed on all the criteria (including planning (a) and planning (b), which are generally the hardest). You need to be assessed on each of the eight criteria at least twice. Then a sample of at least 5 people from each class is sent off for moderation, and grades are adjusted so that grading is uniform throughout the world. The *whole* portfolio is sent off, which in my case was some 24 experiment write-ups; if you want to go just by sheer number, that's clearly more than 5 pieces of coursework. (Of course the reports are all of varying length, depending on the experiment, so again, it's very hard to compare.)
    This internal assessment is weighed to 24% of the final grade.

    Furthermore you need to have done something known as the 'Group 4 Project', which is a project done with people from all the sciences (if you do two sciences, you need to participate in two different G4P groups); you need to prepare a presentation (eg a poster) and you need to write another experiment write-up for this. This is also sent for moderation (but need not be assessed by the set criteria unless you want it to be; it just needs to be done).

    I'm also not sure how you can claim that A-level papers are harder than IB HL papers (and if you read the report, you'll see that this is not thought to be the case). I've looked at several A-level papers (from across the modules), and maths in particular is very easy indeed (only mechanics is somewhat more difficult, because that's done in IB Physics; our maths course is generally pure maths only); chemistry seems to be fairly easy as well, certainly no harder than the IB; and German A-level is probably even less than what we've done at IB German B Standard Level.
    I've also seen an English A-level paper, and to be honest, that doesn't seem to be too comparable at all, or maybe I just can't judge because I've read different books. The style is vastly different. (I haven't seen A-level exams for other subjects.)
    IB papers are very hard to get online, but I'm attaching sample Maths Papers 1 & 2 for you (November 2003 and May 2002 respectively). They're not very hard ones at all - unfortunately they're the only ones I have on my computer (they're not even the same year - and I only have the markscheme for Paper 2). Otherwise I'd have selected hard ones to prove my point.
    If you want to see chemistry papers though, I have lots more.


    As for claiming that on average, IB and A-level students are equally intelligent except British IBers, I don't see why that should be the case. I don't think there can be, honestly, too much correlation, but if you're willing to accept that what Andy says is true in Britain, what makes you think it isn't true internationally? The IB Diploma isn't the *only* end-of-secondary-school exam anywhere in the world, and it isn't usually offered to just anyone who wants to do it. At my school, for example, there was a very long acceptance process - I needed to fill in a form - about my grades and voluntary work and other things like that -, write an essay, get three references from my teachers and additional references from other people if possible, get permission from the headmaster to apply, then finally there was an interview. (Overall I'm thinking now that it was easier to get into Oxford!)
    Moreover, even if the sample were truly random in Britain for A-levels and internationally for the IB, that still wouldn't imply equal competence in exams (as 'intelligence' would sound just rude here, I think). Various cultures have different schooling methods prior to the IB, so the capacity to do well in IB exams is different from the outset in each of them. This is averaged internationally, but not in the case of A-levels (and I'm not sure which way the scale leans in this case - but it's hard to imagine it being balanced).

    So what I'm saying is, the fact that however many per cent get a specific grade in either system doesn't mean that the level of attainment is the same. It merely means that, of those having done the same exam as you, you are there-and-there on the scale; and because the population taking IB and A-level exams is different, you can't make swift conclusions based on some statistics.
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    (Original post by andy_cole2)
    according to the telegraph anyone with 30 points or above is worthy of oxbridge (3.5 A levels) and erm yeah BS :p:
    It's UCAS who have set the point score as 30=AAAa, not the telegraph. Oxbridge ignore UCAS points anyway, so they should continue to set offers at exactly the same level (roughly 40/45).
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    It might change the way offers are made to IB students - instead of offering on the final diploma points it might cause a move to a closer match with A level offers (ie points for each higher level subject and ignoring the points for standard level)
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    I'm starting IB in the next academic year and I have to say the only things I'm not happy about compared with A Levels are CAS and TOK which both appear to be very time consuming.
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    A point about intelligence levels of IB versus A-level students - and please, don't bite my head off for this. It's actually something I've been debating with various people for several years anyway and I'm not sure whether I agree or not. But anyway.

    I don't know exactly how it works in the UK, but the people I know who are taking IB are all at public schools. Outside of the UK, most IB candidates go to International schools. So the difference between the majority of IB candidates and many A-level candidates is that the IB candidates will mainly come from middle class families. Most will have parents who have been to university themselves and have jobs either in dimplomatic functions or multinationals.

    This doesn't automatically make the students brighter, of course, but it does mean that they have a more solid grounding in academic work. Because their parents can help them with work, because they've been brought up in an environment where academic acheivement is viewed as both important and possible. It can also mean increased confidence in their own ability.

    Say what you like, but confidence and preparation (being accustomed to the work) are big factors in how well students acheive - in general, of course, not for everyone. So IB students can generally achieve better scores because of this.

    I understand that this encompasses several huge generalisations, but I think the basic fact is right. And I do feel, after reading the previous posts, that I should restate that IB candidates take 6 subjects, and write an extended essay, and take a TOK course, and have to complete 150 CAS hours...how is that not more work than 3 A-levels?

    Incidentally, my school is an International school and one of the only options available for many people attending it. We have a healthy cross section of grades (ranging from over 40 to under 20 this year), just as there's likely to be a range of achievement in any A-level school, so not all IB students are either more intelligent or more motivated than A-level students...
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    66% of IB scores are at level 5 or above. I would imagine this translates to about 70 - 75% of candidates getting 30 or above. A stat for that would be appreciated however.

    10% of A Level candidates get all As in their grades.

    Are IB students really that much more intelligent and hardworking?


    Or is UCAS putting a lot of emphasis on the extra-curriculars you have to do for IB (CAS?) I don't know
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    I would imagine this translates to about 70 - 75% of candidates getting 30 or above. A stat for that would be appreciated however.

    10% of A Level candidates get all As in their grades.
    Since in IB you take 6 subjects it would be fairer to say that 30=BBBccc. The qustion is not "would someone who gets 30/45 be able to get AAAa?", it is more like "would someone who gets 30/45 be able to get BBBccc?" (this is without taking the 3 other points for tok/whatever, so in reality 30 could be equivalent to CCCccc if all three of these marks are awarded to the candidate). The average grade at A level is a B (or so wikipedia tells me anyway), so it is not inconcievable that someone who scores 30/45 could get lets say BCCccc (28/45, not including the other three points which in my example get it up to 30/45).

    As a side note I think the IB is stupid in that you are forced to do a wide curriculum and TOK and CAS, I'd hate to be doing an exam system like that. But I have no trouble in believing that these UCAS points values make sense if you only think about the difficulty of the exams and the amount of content that you need to learn (though I think just looking at those two things gives a misleading view).
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    I don't mean to hate but I don't get what all this hype is about. I did A level physics and compared it to a couple of IB HL Physics past papers and the standard is pretty much the same, if not, in fact, lower for IB. And I read somewhere you need like 75% to get a 7 though I doubt that's true.
 
 
 

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