Is it unfair for CL dropouts to fall into the Europa League? Watch

Aky786UK
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The CL group stages end and the third placed teams drop into UEFA's Europa League.

Let's not forget that the winners of this year's competition will get an automatic place into the CL as a way to boost motivation for teams in it.

Juventus, Lyon, Shakhtar all join the EL stages.

I just think it's ridiculous. If you're out of the CL, you should be gone back to play next season if you qualify in your respective leagues.

In 2015, EL winners will qualify for the CL competition.

Now imagine if you're a team who has played from day one, to be usurped of a CL spot by the third placed team who got dumped out of the group stages.

EL isn't the best of competitions anyway but this sort of thing undermines it. It seems to be rewarding failure but maybe the rewarding of failure is done by halting the club's league form by the Thursday-Sunday schedule.

Thoughts?
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UniMastermindBOSS
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I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I see it as adding a bit more quality to Europa league.

I would love to see Tottenham and Valencia have to play Juve, Napoli, Ajax, Shakthar, etc.. rather than play teams like FC Sheriff or Shakther Karagandy...
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Malevolent
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A little more quality ain't bad


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sevchenko
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The whole competition is flawed tbh Firstly CL team shouldn't be allowed to go down into the EL. What the point of rewarding failure? The only reason why it's in there was to make the group stage more exciting with a 3rd place chase but teams just see the EL as a burden of extra for very limited money. CL teams going down isn't really fair to the existing teams just like we saw with Chelsea Juve can easily turn over all teams in the comp.

Secondly cup winners shouldn't go into the EL, entry into the competition should totally be on the basis of league results.
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Mackay
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(Original post by sevchenko)
The whole competition is flawed tbh Firstly CL team shouldn't be allowed to go down into the EL. What the point of rewarding failure? The only reason why it's in there was to make the group stage more exciting with a 3rd place chase but teams just see the EL as a burden of extra for very limited money. CL teams going down isn't really fair to the existing teams just like we saw with Chelsea Juve can easily turn over all teams in the comp.

Secondly cup winners shouldn't go into the EL, entry into the competition should totally be on the basis of league results.
Couldn't agree more. The cup winners thing is a joke. hence why Wigan are in it this year when they are in the second tier.
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Mechie
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(Original post by sevchenko)
Secondly cup winners shouldn't go into the EL, entry into the competition should totally be on the basis of league results.
(Original post by Mackay)
Couldn't agree more. The cup winners thing is a joke. hence why Wigan are in it this year when they are in the second tier.
What's wrong with cup winners going into Europe? It's good to reward those who win a national cup with a European spot. It helps to stop the devaluation of the national cups which has been happening in recent years, and provides some variety and romance in to both national and European cups.
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MattBerry96
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I don't like it. I think last year in the semi finals of the EL the teams were all CL dropouts (please correct me if I'm mistaken). I would be annoyed if my team had qualified for EL by getting a good league spot or winning a cup only to be knocked out by a team from the CL.


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Babylid
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Yeh I think it's pretty stupid, what's the point of qualifying in fifth?

the whole competition is literally set up to be laughed at, let's be honest no one wants to be in the Europa League no matter much they say they do.
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sr90
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It is wrong to reward failure but UEFA obviously allow it because would give them more money. Having teams like Juventus and Porto enter the competition gives it that little more appeal. As someone else has said, nobody wants to see Ludogorets Razgrad vs Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk or Slovan Liberec vs Genk.
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MagicNMedicine
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I think the Europa League needs reformatting.

It has lost the prestige that it had in the old days of the UEFA Cup. When Liverpool won it against Alaves in 2001 that was seen as an impressive achievement and one that probably topped winning the FA Cup and League Cup which they also did that season. Last year Chelsea won it and were kind of like "meh".

Loads of teams see it as a burden that they don't want to be in and don't take seriously unless they are still in it by the latter stages and realise they are out of others competition so see it as a chance to redeem their season by getting silverware.

In the good old days they used to have the Cup Winners Cup too, which was another exciting competition, it was straight knock out all the way and you had a mixture of interesting teams in it. United won it against Barcelona in 1991 which was a great night for United fans and the first English triumph in Europe for a decade. It was pretty big when Arsenal won it in 1994 too.

I reckon they should reduce the number of games in the Europa League and maybe split it off in to two competitions by bringing back the Cup Winners Cup again. You could have both as a straight knock out perhaps or just have the Europa League having groups of 4 where everybody plays everybody else once.
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Zerforax
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Not allowing teams from the CL to enter the Europa League would make it entirely a 2nd tier competition. I think it's an acknowledgement that some of the teams in the champions league are there to make up numbers.

Get rid of the cup competitions and start Europe wide leagues A super European league if you will.
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sevchenko
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(Original post by Mechie)
What's wrong with cup winners going into Europe? It's good to reward those who win a national cup with a European spot. It helps to stop the devaluation of the national cups which has been happening in recent years, and provides some variety and romance in to both national and European cups.
Imo it devalues the competition and reduces it to a mickey mouse cup. The league is most accurate indicator of a teams ability and the teams should be rewarded accordingly for where they finish. Wigan and Swansea weren't good enough for the competition just because they won a a cup competition where anyone can win on the day. The EL would have been a more exciting competition if Spurs, Everton and Liverpool were in it.

Ask yourself why doesn't the Champions league have this system? Imagine Wigan in the CL and Arsenal missing out. People want to watch the best teams competing against each other the EL can offer that if they change their ways. The FA and League cup have been going downhill since they sold out to the overseas markets.
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Mechie
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(Original post by sevchenko)
Imo it devalues the competition and reduces it to a mickey mouse cup. The league is most accurate indicator of a teams ability and the teams should be rewarded accordingly for where they finish. Wigan and Swansea weren't good enough for the competition just because they won a a cup competition where anyone can win on the day. The EL would have been a more exciting competition if Spurs, Everton and Liverpool were in it.

Ask yourself why doesn't the Champions league have this system? Imagine Wigan in the CL and Arsenal missing out. People want to watch the best teams competing against each other the EL can offer that if they change their ways. The FA and League cup have been going downhill since they sold out to the overseas markets.
I don't just want to see the teams with the most money playing all the time. If it were done purely on league positions we'd just see all the same teams competing every year, whereas with a greater variety it can create a more exciting competition. The days where relatively big teams from all over Europe could do well in the European cups are gone, and it simply means that it becomes less interesting.

How can you say Swansea and Wigan aren't good enough? They got there on merit, through the no mean feat of winning a national cup, a major achievement. Swansea have gone through their group, and Wigan were a ballhair away from qualifying. Also, Tottenham are in it? :confused:
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sevchenko
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(Original post by Mechie)
I don't just want to see the teams with the most money playing all the time. If it were done purely on league positions we'd just see all the same teams competing every year, whereas with a greater variety it can create a more exciting competition. The days where relatively big teams from all over Europe could do well in the European cups are gone, and it simply means that it becomes less interesting.

How can you say Swansea and Wigan aren't good enough? They got there on merit, through the no mean feat of winning a national cup, a major achievement. Swansea have gone through their group, and Wigan were a ballhair away from qualifying. Also, Tottenham are in it? :confused:
Do we see the same teams in the CL every year? not really no. Believe it or not the teams with the most money usually have the most talented players and those are the players we want to see. The competition can still have variety because of the different tactics and foreign teams on offer I reject the notion that we'd see the same teams over and over. Just look back at the tables from the top European leagues and you'l see the top 7 is constantly changing.

I can say Swansea and Wigan aren't good enough because as I said before the league is undisputedly the best indicator of a teams ability after 38 games of playing everybody twice you deserve to be were you are, consistency and ability should be rewarded. It's much easier to win a cup than to secure a top 7 finish, cup form is indifferent and one match is not an accurate test of a teams ability. 9 out of 10 times City would beat Wigan, City didn't turn up and Wigan won it on the day that doesn't make the Wigan squad good enough for a European competition.

So what if they've gone through the standard of the competition is so dreadfully poor a championship side nearly made through. I'm aware Spurs are in the Europa league what I'm saying is that Liverpool and Everton along side Spurs would make the competition more interesting, exciting and watchable instead of Wigan and Swansea
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username917703
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
I think the Europa League needs reformatting.
What do you think about merging the European Cup/CL with the Europa League? Seems to be going that way.

I posted this a while back:

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
I can't be bothered to read the thread so these points may have already been made, but:

Re-branding it as the Europa League was a mistake. It's basically Europe's 'Division 2' now, a poor man's CL. 2nd rate. It had more prestige as the UEFA Cup.

Also, the winner should be given a place in the Champions League the following year, that would encourage teams to take it more seriously, especially English sides. I know it defeats the purpose of the winner being there to defend their crown but the sole reason for our teams not taking it seriously is because they worry it'll hamper their league form and they'll lose out on a CL place.

UEFA have ballsed it up, basically.

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Absolutely.

Also teams who don't take the Europa League seriously, mean that when they're eliminated earlier, England loses coefficient points, which means over time we'll lose our 4th CL place. I don't blame the clubs, you do what's best for you, but it's not right how UEFA have gone about things.

The way the Champions League is currently, big clubs are allowed to get bigger without even winning anything, when it goes back to being champion vs champion with 2nd place having to qualify, then it'll be better and clubs won't place priority on finishing 4th over winning what is a major trophy in European football.

These allocations for the Champions League were given because UEFA wanted the glamour teams with the biggest crowds and most history in the competition being in it regularly and that was something that the teams themselves exploited by forming the G14 putting those other clubs at an even bigger disadvantage.

You see a bunch of teams who over the past decade have had places literally handed to them creating a cartel of a handful of teams that's virtually impossible to break into now unless you have a spare half a billion quid in your back pocket, if you're in with a sniff of CL qualification or winning the Europa League, you'd take the former now, that's not right. The gap is getting bigger and bigger. Remember Ipswich finishing 4th in the late 90's I think it was? Would never happen now.

But hey, at least those same 12/14 clubs are loaded with star players & quality :rolleyes:

And all at the expense of the UEFA Cup/Europa League.
I think, I would be in favour of merging them. I can't see how they can claw back any credibility for the Europa League to be honest.
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Mackay
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(Original post by Mechie)
What's wrong with cup winners going into Europe? It's good to reward those who win a national cup with a European spot. It helps to stop the devaluation of the national cups which has been happening in recent years, and provides some variety and romance in to both national and European cups.
I'm all for giving extra value to the national cups, but there should be the introduction of a Cup Winners' Cup and revert the Europa League to the old UEFA Cup format in my view.

Less teams, more prestige.
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9MmBulletz
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It's been done for over 15 years (I think) so it's hard to eradicate now.

Anyway, the Europa League is a drab-fest atm. The only team in it that have a chance in the CL is Tottenham and maybe Fiorentina. All the other teams are not appealing enough to watch regularly. Sure there's a good few teams like Valencia, Sevilla etc but there's a gap between Tottenham and the second best team in the competition atm.

If you have Champions League drop-outs like Napoli, Juventus, Porto etc in the competition it will attract much more viewers and more money. Plus, it'd make the competition more competitive. I'm not sure that Juventus will even take the competition seriously unless they get to the semi-finals with ther fringe players. It might be unfair to the teams that qualify and are there all the time, but it's essentially a secondary competition.

And besides, who wants to see Tottenham win a trophy anyway?
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rickfloss
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imo europa cup should only be for 2nd league teams.
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username917703
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(Original post by rickfloss)
imo europa cup should only be for 2nd league teams.
They play 46 games a season here as it is, plus a potential 9 in the FA Cup and 8 in the League Cup - 63 games and you want them to play another 12? 75 games a season?
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ninuzu
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Backing Shakhtar to win it.

I think the Europa league had plenty of s*** teams in the group stage and having better teams like Shakhtar, Juve, Porto, Napoli etc vastly inproves the tournament. I rarely watch the group stage games for EL but when the CL boys drop down, it makes the whole tournament so much better.
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