Gove right to have children knowing 12 x tables by age of 10? Watch

Mr Student
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Did anyone go beyond 12 times table?

The National Curriculum has suggested up to 12 but I am wondering if it's beneficial to go beyond this or whether other numerical skills should be prioritised?

Pisa suggests we're lagging internationally in numeracy (and most other subjects) and, anecdotally, I see and experience poor numeracy on a daily basis.

Despite potentially disengaging young people, is Gove not attempting to address a serious problem with our education system?

I really feel for good teachers as they are under enough pressure but a back-to-basics traditionalist approach deserves to be considered.
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little_wizard123
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If you don't have an interest in maths, it's very hard to get. I'd say about 80% of over 16's couldn't answer multiplication questions instantly (less than 12x12), which is appalling really. I've known people who literally cannot divide small numbers by 2. I don't associate with this sort if I have to, though.

Maths is obviously a very good skill to have though, it just needs to be made more appealing to non-numerical students.
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Tyrion_Lannister
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Sorry but who cares? Why is this a necessary skill? It's useful to know but certainly not one of the most important things. I still work out multiplictions by sounding them out, works for me, I don't care how stupid you think that makes me
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username91207
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I knew my 12 times table at the age of 10. I thought this was common :erm: obviously not.
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Solarburst
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I can't work them out instantly, does that make me an idiot?
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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My Year 5 (so age 9-10) teacher was a bit bonkers and insisted we learnt up to the 18 times table, because it would help us in later life or some **** like that. That was only for the top set of Year 5 though, who sat on a separate table to everyone.

So to me, saying they need to know their 12 times tables doesn't sound that tall an order :dontknow: Then again, I do acknowledge that some people won't find the 12 times tables as straightforward as my Year 5 teacher made it out to be :dontknow:
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Flauta
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I've known up to my 20 times table since I was about 11. Really really helpful for countdown :rolleyes:
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BurstingBubbles
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I knew my 12x by about 8

it's the changes to exams he's making that we need to be worried about
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matty123
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Gove is just shouting making alot of noise hoping someone will listen and give him the attention he so desires.
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Boromir
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The fact is we have to compete with the world to make ourselves a living. Why is there outrage when someone tries to do something about it?

We've had years of Labour's failings; mediocrity is not the best we should aim for. That is a socialist myth. Rejoice in the fact that someone is finally tackling the problem.
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Manitude
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12s are pretty pointless. Everything after ten can be calculated with knowledge of everything up to ten times table.
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joey11223
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(Original post by Manitude)
12s are pretty pointless. Everything after ten can be calculated with knowledge of everything up to ten times table.
Aye I've always thought about that.

Personally I knew far beyond that sort of thing as I went to Kumon maths, it's kind of funny, if I looked at the sort of stuff I did as a younger child now, I'd be totally lost.

Maths is not everyone's strong point however 12 x tables by 10 is totally realistic IMO. I appreciate conditions like dyslexia exist but I do think we mollycoddle children too much these days, "oh it's okay if you're not at maths", people comment about their poor numeracy skills like it's something to be a proud of, almost like their boasting. "haha well I'm not good at numbers!". No, it's not funny, you're a ******* idiot. If you said the same thing about basic speech you'd be ridiculed, it's not acceptable to speak slang because you can't be bothered to understand/learn a proper vocabulary, so why is it okay not to understand 9x5=45? Hell you see it on programs like The Apprentice. There's always a couple of cooking episodes where someone royally screws up by trying to divide the weights of ingredients in a recipe by 10 or 5, and they just can't do it.
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Manitude
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(Original post by joey11223)
Aye I've always thought about that.

Personally I knew far beyond that sort of thing as I went to Kumon maths, it's kind of funny, if I looked at the sort of stuff I did as a younger child now, I'd be totally lost.

Maths is not everyone's strong point however 12 x tables by 10 is totally realistic IMO. I appreciate conditions like dyslexia exist but I do think we mollycoddle children too much these days, "oh it's okay if you're not at maths", people comment about their poor numeracy skills like it's something to be a proud of, almost like their boasting. "haha well I'm not good at numbers!". No, it's not funny, you're a ******* idiot. If you said the same thing about basic speech you'd be ridiculed, it's not acceptable to speak slang because you can't be bothered to understand/learn a proper vocabulary, so why is it okay not to understand 9x5=45? Hell you see it on programs like The Apprentice. There's always a couple of cooking episodes where someone royally screws up by trying to divide the weights of ingredients in a recipe by 10 or 5, and they just can't do it.
People claiming they're "dyslexic with numbers" as a badge of honour is disturbingly common. I pretty damn sure that people who've been diagnosed with discalculia would at least know the name of the condition they've been diagnosed with!
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Eva.Gregoria
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Britain is seriously lacking behind the rest of the world academically if this wasn't already expected in the first place.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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joey11223
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(Original post by Manitude)
People claiming they're "dyslexic with numbers" as a badge of honour is disturbingly common. I pretty damn sure that people who've been diagnosed with discalculia would at least know the name of the condition they've been diagnosed with!
Ah I did forget there's an accurate diagnosis, I hear dyslexia used all the time to the extent I forgot that. Suppose it's like paedophilia with teenagers, you never here ephebophile or hebephile.

I think a lot of people self diagnose such things as an excuse for their lack of effort. I didn't have the effort to put work into understanding French when I did my GCSE, but I won't pretend I suffer from some sort of language learning issue.
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Manitude
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(Original post by joey11223)
Ah I did forget there's an accurate diagnosis, I hear dyslexia used all the time to the extent I forgot that. Suppose it's like paedophilia with teenagers, you never here ephebophile or hebephile.

I think a lot of people self diagnose such things as an excuse for their lack of effort. I didn't have the effort to put work into understanding French when I did my GCSE, but I won't pretend I suffer from some sort of language learning issue.
Pretty much, yeah.
I was quite bad at arithmetic when I was very young. I did, however, very much enjoy it despite this.
And 15 years later I'd say I'm pretty damn good at maths. Maybe not arithmetic because I use a calculator
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silverbolt
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by age 10? By age 10 we were doing fractions in my maths class never mind the times tables.
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locrian37
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Well its easy for asian kids, not so much possible for your average white kid who cares not for a wage above double figures an hour.
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Nader_KSA
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Meanwhile in Asia they're doing algebra at the age of 10
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smd4std
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i remember learning algebra and fractions when i was in year 4...
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