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    This is a question, i'm wondering if anyone knows the answer.

    Say I ran a club called "Honky Dory" or something equally hilarious, and it was a whites only group. I refused to let anyone who wasn't white in. Say we rented out halls to have a little fund raiser in, and ran five-a-side for our white kids or something. I don't really know what "groups" do, but I imagine it's probably mostly fund raisers and five-a-sides, along with some BBQs. Say you charged a £5 yearly fee to be a member, and you got a news letter. Anyway, would this be illegal? Under what law?

    And I don't care if you think it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be illegal, i'm just wondering if anyone knows if it actually is. Ta.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    This is a question, i'm wondering if anyone knows the answer.

    Say I ran a club called "Honky Dory" or something equally hilarious, and it was a whites only group. I refused to let anyone who wasn't white in. Say we rented out halls to have a little fund raiser in, and ran five-a-side for our white kids or something. I don't really know what "groups" do, but I imagine it's probably mostly fund raisers and five-a-sides, along with some BBQs. Say you charged a £5 yearly fee to be a member, and you got a news letter. Anyway, would this be illegal? Under what law?

    And I don't care if you think it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be illegal, i'm just wondering if anyone knows if it actually is. Ta.
    I personally don't know of any black organizations where you have to be black to be a member. Maybe it's different in the UK. The NAACP at my uni had a Mexican girl and an Argentinian girl as VP and publicity chairperson. So I don't think it would be OK for you to discriminate, but I'm sure you'd be free to make it "white-centric" if you want. The problem is that you'd attract a fair share if neo-Nazis, when you might simply want to have a little social club.
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    Not sure about legality, but Rosa Parks comes to mind.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    This is a question, i'm wondering if anyone knows the answer.

    Say I ran a club called "Honky Dory" or something equally hilarious, and it was a whites only group. I refused to let anyone who wasn't white in. Say we rented out halls to have a little fund raiser in, and ran five-a-side for our white kids or something. I don't really know what "groups" do, but I imagine it's probably mostly fund raisers and five-a-sides, along with some BBQs. Say you charged a £5 yearly fee to be a member, and you got a news letter. Anyway, would this be illegal? Under what law?

    And I don't care if you think it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be illegal, i'm just wondering if anyone knows if it actually is. Ta.
    That's a very interesting question. Not really sure what the answer is but I thought it would be interesting to see what the HRA has to say.

    Under ARTICLE 11; FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

    2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.


    I think that 1) might be interpreted to include the formation of a private society to promote "white interests" (whatever they may be)

    I don't see why this would be restricted under 2) because it would not pose a threat to national security, public safety, or promote crime ir disorder etc. One could argue that such a club should be restricted for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others (ie the freedom of a black man to join this white society) but there again these freedoms and rights do not exist positively in law anyway.

    Of course, the Race Relations Act deals with discrimination but generally applies to the fields of employment, planning, housing, the exercise of public functions (both by public authorities and also private bodies exercising public functions, for example, privately-run prisons), the provision of goods, facilities and services, and education.

    I don't think a private club based on white only anglo-saxon interests would be covered here. Certainly it would apply to a private golf club since that is a facility but not sure about a club of this sort.

    I think it would be legal but as I have said, I could easily be wrong.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    That's a very interesting question. Not really sure what the answer is but I thought it would be interesting to see what the HRA has to say.

    Under ARTICLE 11; FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION

    1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

    2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.


    I think that 1) might be interpreted to include the formation of a private society to promote "white interests" (whatever they may be)

    I don't see why this would be restricted under 2) because it would not pose a threat to national security, public safety, or promote crime ir disorder etc. One could argue that such a club should be restricted for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others (ie the freedom of a black man to join this white society) but there again these freedoms and rights do not exist positively in law anyway.

    Of course, the Race Relations Act deals with discrimination but generally applies to the fields of employment, planning, housing, the exercise of public functions (both by public authorities and also private bodies exercising public functions, for example, privately-run prisons), the provision of goods, facilities and services, and education.

    I don't think a private club based on white only anglo-saxon interests would be covered here. Certainly it would apply to a private golf club since that is a facility but not sure about a club of this sort.

    I think it would be legal but as I have said, I could easily be wrong.
    So basically, as long as you, as a group, do not break any laws (such as incitement of racial hatred, etc), you're good? I know you said you don't know, but reading what you quoted, this seems fairly logical.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    So basically, as long as you, as a group, do not break any laws (such as incitement of racial hatred, etc), you're good?
    I think so.
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    I hate to ask the inevitable, but... why do you ask?

    It may be legal, but you'd have to endure all the racism smears, refusal of services, press coverage, physical attacks on your person and property etc...
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    (Original post by Operation: Mindcrime)
    I hate to ask the inevitable, but... why do you ask?

    It may be legal, but you'd have to endure all the racism smears, refusal of services, press coverage, physical attacks on your person and property etc...
    Because the whole Alton Towers Muslim Day affair was raised on my forums and I mentioned how they were a group, just like any other renting outt he park. A friend of mine said that if a white only group wanted to they couldnt, because their group would be a illegal. I wasn't sure if it was true, thus I asked.
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    Could i join if i paint myself white:confused:
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    Because the whole Alton Towers Muslim Day affair was raised on my forums and I mentioned how they were a group, just like any other renting outt he park. A friend of mine said that if a white only group wanted to they couldnt, because their group would be a illegal. I wasn't sure if it was true, thus I asked.
    Alton Towers day is not Muslim only. It's Muslim Fun Day--Muslim-themed. Anyone can go. Besides how would they even know if you're Muslim if you attended, Muslims are all races.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    Alton Towers day is not Muslim only. It's Muslim Fun Day--Muslim-themed. Anyone can go. Besides how would they even know if you're Muslim if you attended, Muslims are all races.
    ... great? What are you telling me that for?

    Though for the record, it's not muslim "themed". It was hired out by a big leisure company who specialise in providing leisure for muslims. You can only buy tickets from their website. The park was merely catering for a client, the same as they would if any other group hired it out.
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    This is what I said in my first post. If you'd read it then you'd see the relevance.

    (Original post by shady lane)
    I personally don't know of any black organizations where you have to be black to be a member. Maybe it's different in the UK. The NAACP at my uni had a Mexican girl and an Argentinian girl as VP and publicity chairperson. So I don't think it would be OK for you to discriminate, but I'm sure you'd be free to make it "white-centric" if you want.
    As far as I know the Muslim group isn't excluding anyone. Someone on TSR said he went to the ticket website and it doesn't say anywhere that you must be Muslim. If you paid the money on the site they can't bar you from entry.

    So in the same vein, if you want a white group, I don't think you'd legally be able to exclude non-white people. I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to make one.

    At universities in the US, the only groups that are allowed to exclude people are fraternities and sororities, and that is based solely on gender. The president of a black fraternity on my campus was white, as was the VP of an Asian sorority.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    This is what I said in my first post. If you'd read it then you'd see the relevance.
    I know, thats exactly why I posted what I did. I did what you did - posted something the person I was talking to already knew.

    As far as I know the Muslim group isn't excluding anyone. Someone on TSR said he went to the ticket website and it doesn't say anywhere that you must be Muslim. If you paid the money on the site they can't bar you from entry.

    So in the same vein, if you want a white group, I don't think you'd legally be able to exclude non-white people. I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to make one.

    At universities in the US, the only groups that are allowed to exclude people are fraternities and sororities, and that is based solely on gender. The president of a black fraternity on my campus was white, as was the VP of an Asian sorority.
    When have I said that any of this isn't true? It's like you're trying to force an argument when we both agree.
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    I didn't know you agreed because you never stated a point. You just asked "is this legal or not." And I gave my opinion on what the answer was. Then you were like "great what's your point then."
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    Can i just say that Muslims are followers of Islam; a religion, you're a little confused, im sick of these crazy reactionaries. Hiring out Alton towers for muslims is just the same as the christian youth group hiring out a society room for a "christian meet|" or something. Why make into something about race when it isnt. Now thats out of the way, while your at it why dont you ask if an indian only and a black only meeting is allowed because a muslims only meet certainly doesnt qualify as an "asians only group".
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    If it is illegal then you better tell the "black police association" http://www.nationalbpa.com/ as well as the "society of asian lawyers" www.societyofasianlawyers.com
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    (Original post by happybob)
    If it is illegal then you better tell the "black police association" http://www.nationalbpa.com/ as well as the "society of asian lawyers" www.societyofasianlawyers.com
    You ought to read the websites first. From the BLPA's constitution:
    ARTICLE 3: MEMBERSHIP


    3.1 Full membership is open to any constituted Black Police Association whose aims and objectives are compatible with or supportive of those of the NBPA. All new BPA memberships will be approved by the Cabinet and issued a certificate of membership signed by the elected President in post.

    I read more of it and there's absolutely nothing that says you must be black to be a member. But you do have to be a police officer to be a full member.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    You ought to read the websites first. From the BLPA's constitution:
    ARTICLE 3: MEMBERSHIP


    3.1 Full membership is open to any constituted Black Police Association whose aims and objectives are compatible with or supportive of those of the NBPA. All new BPA memberships will be approved by the Cabinet and issued a certificate of membership signed by the elected President in post.

    I read more of it and there's absolutely nothing that says you must be black to be a member. But you do have to be a police officer to be a full member.
    O right, anyway the BNP/NF has a white only membership so it must be legal.
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    tangent,

    but did anyone see the Young Black Farmers series on C4? The whole was designed to identify two young Blacks for the "conservative" businessman to find jobs for in his company. Given the opportunity was limited to Blacks - was that legal?
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    tangent,

    but did anyone see the Young Black Farmers series on C4? The whole was designed to identify two young Blacks for the "conservative" businessman to find jobs for in his company. Given the opportunity was limited to Blacks - was that legal?
    So your point is they shouldn't have even done this because the black people need to be segregated in order to avoid a race war (according to your sig).
 
 
 
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