why are western feminists so quiet on islam? Watch

faketitle
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#21
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#21
(Original post by mimi112)
i would love to know that. and i would love to hear an honest answer without her fearing she will be ''honorably killed'' or disowned for not agreeing with practices 1500 years old.
Oh, would you 'love to know that' really? So what is it exactly that's stopping you from 'knowing' that? And what is it exactly that's making you 'know' the opposite? I'll tell you what it is: bias. You hold on to an antiquated, close-minded way of thinking: that every Muslim woman who wears a burka does so because she is frightened of the repercussions of her not doing so. That practice may be 1500 years old (1400 to be more exact) but so is inhalation and exhalation. If the Muslim women of today relate to and agree with what the Muslim women of 1400 years ago did, what's your problem? You're the one demeaning and belittling them, not their men. You're the one calling them 'submissive dogs' when all they're doing is whatever they want. I suppose women are only being truly free when they walk down streets half-naked? Hypocrisy at its finest. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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mimi112
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#22
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(Original post by faketitle)
Oh, would you 'love to know that' really? So what is it exactly that's stopping you from 'knowing' that? And what is it exactly that's making you 'know' the opposite? I'll tell you what it is: bias. You hold on to an antiquated, close-minded way of thinking: that every Muslim woman who wears a burka does so because she is frightened of the repercussions of her not doing so. That practice may be 1500 years old (1400 to be more exact) but so is inhalation and exhalation. If the Muslim women of today relate to and agree with what the Muslim women of 1400 years ago did, what's your problem? You're the one demeaning and belittling them, not their men. You're the one calling them 'submissive dogs' when all they're doing is whatever they want. I suppose women are only being truly free when they walk down streets half-naked? Hypocrisy at its finest. You should be ashamed of yourself.
oh i am sure many muslim women are fine with it, especially in muslim countries. but this is what happens when you brainwash someone from birth and they get no other options. this goes for every religion and ideology. same way most north koreans worship whoever is in charge, it's the only reality they know. most people will just go with the flow since they don't want to deviate from the norm.

btw, what should the penalty for apostasy in islam be?
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faketitle
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#23
(Original post by mimi112)
oh i am sure many muslim women are fine with it, especially in muslim countries. but this is what happens when you brainwash someone from birth and they get no other options. this goes for every religion and ideology. most people will just go with the flow since they don't want to deviate from the norm.

btw, what should the penalty for apostasy in islam be?
There you go again, degrading Muslim women in general and calling them 'brainwashed' simply for doing whatever they want to. A person doesn't have to be brainwashed to save a place for common modesty in their hearts. You're a bigot, that's all.
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harry_007
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What if the Western feminist converted to Islam?

She can't exactly fight the past now.

There is staunch opposition from Muslim women to Western feminism.

I would be scared as a Western feminist in a room full of Muslim women.
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mimi112
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(Original post by faketitle)
There you go again, degrading Muslim women in general and calling them 'brainwashed' simply for doing whatever they want to. A person doesn't have to be brainwashed to save a place for common modesty in their hearts. You're a bigot, that's all.
you avoided my question: what is the penalty for apostasy in islam?
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faketitle
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(Original post by mimi112)
you avoided my question: what is the penalty for apostasy in islam?
You seem to be a right scholar on Islam already, I'm surprised you don't know that one yet. I'd suggest you look it up on Wikiislam and add it to your cart of sunny facts about Islam, bigot.
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Flexa
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I'm not quiet on it.


I might get another blue card if I start talking about how oppressive Islam is to women.
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mimi112
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(Original post by faketitle)
You seem to be a right scholar on Islam already, I'm surprised you don't know that one yet. I'd suggest you look it up on Wikiislam and add it to your cart of sunny facts about Islam, bigot.
do you believe a muslim who leaves their religion should be executed? yes or no?
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Plainview
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Because feminism and religious exceptionism are both branches of the leftist tree.
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Plainview
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(Original post by Катя)
because racism really, really doesn't concern white people at the same scale as POC.
Isn't that considered quite a racist term?
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gr8wizard10
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#31
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#31
(Original post by mimi112)
oh i am sure many muslim women are fine with it, especially in muslim countries. but this is what happens when you brainwash someone from birth and they get no other options. this goes for every religion and ideology. same way most north koreans worship whoever is in charge, it's the only reality they know. most people will just go with the flow since they don't want to deviate from the norm.

btw, what should the penalty for apostasy in islam be?
Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed. This is confirmed by the words and deeds of Muhammad. The only freedom of belief in Islam is the freedom to become Muslim.

"They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper." - [Qur'an 4:89]

"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
- [Qur'an 9: 11-12]

Our beloved Prophet and messenger said:

" If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " - [Bukhari 52:260]

This is applicable under Islamic Law.
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momomomo123
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(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Just look at TSR.

Muslims are constantly complaining about "hostility" against them when people are against the burka/hitting women.

Almost everyone on TSR who isn't Muslim speaks against Muslim women's oppression.

Edit: I don't think Muslim women are the only ones who need help. I think there are many Muslim men and women who would like to live a normal life but can't because of their families. If I ever become rich I'll open a charity for those people.
Of course they will compain about hostility against burkas; it is a woman's right to cover herself up if she wants to. Just because she is wearing a burka does not mean that she was forced into doing so.

'Hitting women' is not a part of Islam and never has been. Islam is against such things and so are the vast majority of Muslims.


You use the term 'Muslim Women' too generally; we are not some terrorised species just because of our religion. If I became rich I would open a charity which raises awareness of the fact that not all Muslim women are oppressed.
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2ndClass
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(Original post by Abdul-Karim)
Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed. This is confirmed by the words and deeds of Muhammad. The only freedom of belief in Islam is the freedom to become Muslim.

"They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper." - [Qur'an 4:89]

"But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
- [Qur'an 9: 11-12]

Our beloved Prophet and messenger said:

" If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " - [Bukhari 52:260]

This is applicable under Islamic Law.
That has nothing to do with apostasy :confused:

Doesn't the Quran-10:99 say ""Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Do you then force people to become believers?" "
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Катя
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(Original post by Plainview)
Isn't that considered quite a racist term?
I've been told that it's preferable to "non-white people". If that's wrong, then someone please correct me.
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Plainview
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(Original post by Катя)
I've been told that it's preferable to "non-white people". If that's wrong, then someone please correct me.
'People of colour' implies difference as deviation (ie. that 'white' is standard, normal). I'd say 'non-white' is more simply delineative.
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brendonbackflip
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#36
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(Original post by mimi112)
not even talking about islamic countries necessarily , but the millions of muslim women that now live in the western world. these are women who deal with real problems , yet instead they always moan about retarded issues like why does m&s designate toys for boys or girls . or the latest disney movie. or men's golf clubs (while women should be allowed to keep their own segregated clubs).
This is one of the major flaws of Western feminism, in that it is mainly focused on white, middle-class, athiest/secular women. PoC Feminists would be more likely to focus on Islamic countries (and women of various different cultures, nationalities, and religions) and hate 'mainstream' feminism for this reason. Sometimes I think if anti-feminists really took the time to look at criticisms within the movement itself, they wouldn't be so quick to hate feminism, and would instead involve themselves in it so they can improve the movement. A lot of their arguments come from feminists themselves.

However - you've not really mentioned it in your OP but I'll mention it anyway - when the West does deal with oppression towards women in Islamic countries or elsewhere, they tend to do it as 'tokenism' and often end up projecting racist, anti-muslim and generally insensitive views on it. Take the whole debate with the burqua: its a typical issue that is cited as how horrible and nasty Islam is, and has seen to be such an 'issue' that they've been banned in France, using the excuse of oppression. This is how the West would interpret it. Many Muslim women don't see the burqua as oppressive or forced upon them, but as an expression of their religion. Women many suffer if they come from a family where they are being forced to wear it, but women can also choose to wear it, and taking that right away from them is more oppressive than leaving it be. Oppression is seen and felt differently in different cultures. And by different people too, typically; something you can even see in the West and is why Feminism falls flat on its face sometimes.
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gr8wizard10
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(Original post by 2ndClass)
That has nothing to do with apostasy :confused:
It has everything to do with apostasy.

apostasy:
Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.

"Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate." - [Bukhari 83:37]

(Original post by 2ndClass)
Doesn't the Quran-10:99 say ""Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Do you then force people to become believers?" "
"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?" - [Qur'an 10:99]

This verse doesn't refer to apostates. It refers to those who were never Muslims.
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brendonbackflip
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(Original post by Plainview)
'People of colour' implies difference as deviation (ie. that 'white' is standard, normal). I'd say 'non-white' is more simply delineative.
I thought it would have been 'non-white' would imply deviation more (separating 'white' from every other nationality/race/tone). I'm sure there's probably a better term for both labels.
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mimi112
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#39
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#39
(Original post by 2ndClass)
That has nothing to do with apostasy :confused:

Doesn't the Quran-10:99 say ""Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Do you then force people to become believers?" "
i repped him. i love it when muslims don't beat around the bush and make you ask the the same question 15 times before giving you an honest answer. while i find his views despicable, i admire his honesty. and that's all i can really ask for.
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IShootLikeAGirl
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I'm a white middle class feminist that grew up in one of the most predominantly white, protestant constituencies and the town I live in is 98% white people for craps sake; i'm only really concerned about the struggles of women in other cultures. Why should I care about a Disney cartoon when women in India are gang raped all the time? Why should I care about Miley Cyrus' new music video when Texan women are being oppressed by new bills in congress? People that think that feminists only care about their own cultures are ignorant. If you really look into the true feminist publications and not just the stupid ones in UK newspapers, you would see this.
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