The Student Room Group

Nucleophilic substitution reactions

what does this mean? 'Nucleophilicity increases going down the periodic table as polarizability increases'. Why does polarizability have such a large effect on nulceophilicity. From what I understand polarizability is the ability for the redistribution of charge in an external magnetic field. But surely this increase in polarizability would be outweighed by the fact that fluoride has a greater charge density than iodide for example, right? I'm so confused
Reply 1
A nucleophile is a species which donates electrons, so needs to have high electron density. As polarity increases, the more electronegative atom in the bond will become more negatively charged, making a better nucleophile :smile:


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Original post by vhvjhdbhfh
A nucleophile is a species which donates electrons, so needs to have high electron density. As polarity increases, the more electronegative atom in the bond will become more negatively charged, making a better nucleophile :smile:


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Yeah I get that, but according to what I quoted, if we look at the halides for example, iodine would be the best nucleophile as apparentely: 'nucleophilicity increases going down the periodic table as polarizability increases'. Which I'm confused with as isn't fluorine more electron dense so wouldn't it be the best nucleophile?
Original post by celina10
Yeah I get that, but according to what I quoted, if we look at the halides for example, iodine would be the best nucleophile as apparentely: 'nucleophilicity increases going down the periodic table as polarizability increases'. Which I'm confused with as isn't fluorine more electron dense so wouldn't it be the best nucleophile?


Fluorine is the most electronegative element in the periodic table, therefore its electrons are very tightly held around the nucleus and hence it cannot easily give them up.

Iodine on the other hand is a large atom with multiple shells of electrons round it, therefore the outer ones are loosely held and can be donated more easily.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Fluorine is the most electronegative element in the periodic table, therefore its electrons are very tightly held around the nucleus and hence it cannot easily give them up.

Iodine on the other hand is a large atom with multiple shells of electrons round it, therefore the outer ones are loosely held and can be donated more easily.


Thank you so much! I can't believe I didn't think of that, so does the fact that fluorine is more electron dense get outweighed by the electronegativity?
Original post by celina10
Thank you so much! I can't believe I didn't think of that, so does the fact that fluorine is more electron dense get outweighed by the electronegativity?


What exactly do you mean by electron dense? Because Iodine has more electrons than fluorine anyway.

In any case, it's basically governed by the size of the atom and how tightly held the valence electrons are.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
What exactly do you mean by electron dense? Because Iodine has more electrons than fluorine anyway.

In any case, it's basically governed by the size of the atom and how tightly held the valence electrons are.


I mean that outer shell electrons are spread over a larger area in iodine, so I was told it's less electron dense than fluorine (I never really understood this concept)
Original post by celina10
I mean that outer shell electrons are spread over a larger area in iodine, so I was told it's less electron dense than fluorine (I never really understood this concept)


I guess so, then yes, fluorine's electronegativity would counteract that.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I guess so, then yes, fluorine's electronegativity would counteract that.


ok thanks :biggrin:

it feels great to finally understand this!
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I guess so, then yes, fluorine's electronegativity would counteract that.


Can I ask you something else, what does the bit in the red box mean:

ggggg.jpg

how can something be a good base yet poor nucleophile?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by celina10
Can I ask you something else, what does the bit in the red box mean:

ggggg.jpg

how can something be a good base yet poor nucleophile?



It's usually down to steric bulk which makes a good base a poor nucleophile :smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-nucleophilic_base
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It's usually down to steric bulk which makes a good base a poor nucleophile :smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-nucleophilic_base


but how is fluorine a better base than iodine but a worse nucleophile?

I understand that fluorine is a better base due to greater charge density (but what about the greater polarizability of iodine)
And I understand that iodine is a better nucleophile as as it more polarizable as it gives up the outer shell electrons more easily (but what about the increased charge density of fluorine).

This is what's confusing me the most
(edited 10 years ago)

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