English vs Maths Watch

Poll: Maths vs English
Maths (121)
70.76%
English (50)
29.24%
wanderer
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Lusus Naturae)
I think that it is fair to say that professional Mathematics requires as much, if not more, creativity as being the writer of novels.
I think that it is fair to say that statements like that are total value judgements. Anyway, depends how good a writer of novels. I mean JK Rowling, fine, but you'd have to be some mathematician to live up to Salman Rushdie.
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Kolya
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#42
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#42
(Original post by wanderer)
I think that it is fair to say that statements like that are total value judgements. Anyway, depends how good a writer of novels. I mean JK Rowling, fine, but you'd have to be some mathematician to live up to Salman Rushdie.
I think that it is fair to say that comparing different types of creativity and trying to put a numerical value on them is impossible.
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wanderer
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Lusus Naturae)
I think that it is fair to say that comparing different types of creativity and trying to put a numerical value on them is impossible.
Hey, you stole my point! You started the comparing!
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KAISER_MOLE
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#44
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#44
Odd sort of debate this. They might as well be as academic as each other, but I prefer the sort of academic thought procedure and satisfaction factor with mathematics, I'm not sure I could find writing an essay about what a book means, analysing, questioning and what have you, as stimulating as I find Mathematics.

That said, English without the analysing and equivocation about 'meaning' and 'representation', both Literature and Language structure and progress, is something I can appreciate.
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Kolya
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#45
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#45
(Original post by KAISER_MOLE)
Odd sort of debate this.
I agree

It is trying to say whether Shakespeare or Euler has a greater legacy.
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KAISER_MOLE
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#46
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#46
You talk to a random in the street, most the time they won't know who Euler is.
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wanderer
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#47
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#47
And its currently a case of English v. Maths being debated by a group of mathematicians - hmmmm ....
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KAISER_MOLE
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#48
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#48
But we are debating in English, so it all evens out
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generalebriety
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#49
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#49


Meh, my point from the previous page still stands. I see no reason to calm down, I've essentially just been told I know nothing about my own subject from a philosophy undergraduate or whatever the hell that person was. :rolleyes:
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Kolya
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#50
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#50
(Original post by KAISER_MOLE)
You talk to a random in the street, most the time they won't know who Euler is.
Unfortunately it is the case that everybody can read Shakespeare to some extent but you cannot really read Mathematics without a huge amount of previous study. A lot of material is built on the understanding on many other ideas but in English you do not need to have read other books, as a pre-requisite, in order to read a certain book.
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wanderer
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#51
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#51
(Original post by generalebriety)


Meh, my point from the previous page still stands. I see no reason to calm down, I've essentially just been told I know nothing about my own subject from a philosophy undergraduate or whatever the hell that person was. :rolleyes:
No, you essentially told them they know nothing about it. And none of us know that much, even if it is 'our' subject - we aren't at uni yet. You're overreacting, and you're doing 'your' subject no favours.
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generalebriety
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#52
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#52
(Original post by wanderer)
No, you essentially told them they know nothing about it. And none of us know that much, even if it is 'our' subject - we aren't at uni yet. You're overreacting, and you're doing 'your' subject no favours.
As a modern language / philosophy undergraduate, I would expect them to know nothing about maths. They backed that up by saying it was all learning. I'm sticking up for my subject, and whether I'm at uni or not, I know that I've already done a hell of a lot more maths than they have in terms of reading around my subject and projects and so on for teachers. Doing it no favours? I'm sure maths won't come and smack me in the face for arguing with someone who thought they knew better when I'm the one who's done all the research.

If maths was all learning I wouldn't be going to uni to do it.
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Wiseguy.
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#53
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#53
(Original post by fuglyduckling)
A-level Maths, and most Maths degrees, is about learning how to do things and then applying these rigid structures to repetitive situations.
What an Idiot, thats probably the most daftest thing i have ever heard. Ever heard of a subject in maths degrees called Real and Complex analysis. Go search wiki, and then come back an tell me if maths at degree is just learning methods. In fact at Further Maths they introduce some rigorous analysis through proof by mathematical induction.
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wanderer
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#54
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#54
(Original post by generalebriety)
As a modern language / philosophy undergraduate, I would expect them to know nothing about maths. They backed that up by saying it was all learning. I'm sticking up for my subject, and whether I'm at uni or not, I know that I've already done a hell of a lot more maths than they have in terms of reading around my subject and projects and so on for teachers. Doing it no favours? I'm sure maths won't come and smack me in the face for arguing with someone who thought they knew better when I'm the one who's done all the research.
Stop being so flipping arrogant. I've done as much maths as you have and I understand what they're saying. I don't necessarily agree, but your assumption that because they're not a maths student they can't possibly know what you do is a hell of a lot more annoying.
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generalebriety
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#55
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#55
(Original post by wanderer)
Stop being so flipping arrogant. I've done as much maths as you have and I understand what they're saying. I don't necessarily agree, but your assumption that because they're not a maths student they can't possibly know what you do is a hell of a lot more annoying.
In what way am I being arrogant? I don't claim to know all they know about philosophy, which they apparently intend to study, and wouldn't dream of arguing with them about it. Plus I've had several other people here (Gaz031 for a start, who seems to know more about the subject than any of us on here) back up exactly what I've said, pretty much as rudely. Go and argue with someone else.
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wanderer
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#56
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#56
(Original post by generalebriety)
In what way am I being arrogant? I don't claim to know all they know about philosophy, which they apparently intend to study, and wouldn't dream of arguing with them about it. Plus I've had several other people here (Gaz031 for a start, who seems to know more about the subject than any of us on here) back up exactly what I've said, pretty much as rudely. Go and argue with someone else.
Well, I would be quite happy to argue philosophy. If they didn't fly off the handle at me for daring to step outside 'my' subject. Note Fuglyduckling said 'most' university courses. Gaz031 is at Warwick, which is widely regarded as having one of the best maths courses going. But I'm guessing that once you go below the top tier of unis, the original criticism becomes more apt.
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Dann
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#57
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#57
and, once more, reasoned debate turns into mindless one up-manship on the TSR forums...It's sad because I was enjoying it at one point.

Kudos to Wanderer for at least being able to see both sides. To defend an argument is one thing generalebriety, to mindlessly slog on without pause of consideration of what others say, in what appears to be more an ego-trip than anything else is another. For instance, your arguments are quite flawed in places. Whilst you by your own admission assume one poster to have no knowledge of maths because they study philosophy and a language, would surely imply that you yourself by the same coin must know nothing about English, as you do not study it...and yet you feel able to lecture about Maths superiority...

Sadly, for all your talk of maths, logic seems to ebb away in your posts.
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Wiseguy.
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#58
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#58
English is only needed up to GCSE (A-level at max) From then the primary use of english will have been accomplished. As for the maths you will need it up to Post-graduate level to accomplish a few of its uses(as probably only 5% of the uses of mathematics have been discovered) which are,
Engineering:aircrafts, vehicles, buildings
Medicine: used in the chemistry part of medicine.
Investment:Financial simulations are used to model the volatility of shares.
Economics: Econometrics is used to prove economic models.
Electronics: DVDs, Televisions, PCs
Just to name a few.
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generalebriety
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Dann)
and, once more, reasoned debate turns into mindless one up-manship on the TSR forums...It's sad because I was enjoying it at one point.

Kudos to Wanderer for at least being able to see both sides. To defend an argument is one thing generalebriety, to mindlessly slog on without pause of consideration of what others say, in what appears to be more an ego-trip than anything else is another. For instance, your arguments are quite flawed in places. Whilst you by your own admission assume one poster to have no knowledge of maths because they study philosophy and a language, would surely imply that you yourself by the same coin must know nothing about English, as you do not study it...and yet you feel able to lecture about Maths superiority...

Sadly, for all your talk of maths, logic seems to ebb away in your posts.
I know all I need to know about English. Maths changes direction entirely after A-level. English lit can't possibly change direction. It's not that kind of subject... arts subjects don't change violently like science subjects do, they just become harder and broader because they're easier to get to grips with at a lower level and science subjects become more abstract and complex because you have to start off with a simplification which you then build on top of. :confused: Why are people having a go at me for defending my point of view here, which other people have backed me up on?

And if you'd read my posts you'd have seen I never once said maths was 'superior' in any way. I said, right from the start, that they were both of equal value.

This is not a case of "one up-manship", I just feel I'm being treated unfairly here. I'm being told by a philosophy undergraduate that I don't know my own specialist subject (even if I haven't gone to uni yet, I've done enough research to know they're wrong), and on top of it all I'm being argued with by mathematicians, when at least two other people have said exactly what I've said. :tsr2:

(Original post by wanderer)
Well, I would be quite happy to argue philosophy. If they didn't fly off the handle at me for daring to step outside 'my' subject. Note Fuglyduckling said 'most' university courses. Gaz031 is at Warwick, which is widely regarded as having one of the best maths courses going. But I'm guessing that once you go below the top tier of unis, the original criticism becomes more apt.
Fuglyduckling was criticising the subject, not a particular course.
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wanderer
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#60
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#60
(Original post by generalebriety)
I know all I need to know about English.
And you really don't see how you're winding me up?
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