The Student Room Group

How were you taught negative numbers?

I have came across quite a few students who just cannot seem to grasp the basic concepts of arithmetics on negative numbers. For example, 23-2-3 seems to give them a hard time, no matter how I explain it. When I ask about how they get their answers, they always blank me.

In the end, due to time constraints, I had to give them a set of rules to follow instead (eg. two negatives make a plus). However, just forcing them to learn the rules seems rather .. non-mathematical.

On the other hand, I cannot think of a good intuitive model to teach them. The closest I can think of is the balance on a credit card. This still does not cover the operation of taking away negative numbers. I suppose there is cancelling a transaction, but that forces subtraction to take on multiple roles, since subtraction is intuitively "take out money".

Now, I cannot remember how I learnt this. It might well have been brute-forcing memorisation. I would like to do better.

TL;DR: How did you learn to manipulate negative numbers?
(edited 10 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
Original post by Boucly
I have came across quite a few students who just cannot seem to grasp the basic concepts of arithmetics on negative numbers. For example, 23-2-3 seems to give them a hard time, no matter how I explain it -- $2-3$ is $1$; there are negatives involved; the answer must have a negative; answer is obviously -1.



erm

you realise that - - 2 - 3 = - 1 not 1
Reply 2
Original post by TenOfThem
erm

you realise that - - 2 - 3 = - 1 not 1


It is supposed to be a dash, the silly punctuation that I don't really know how to use but try to anyway.
Reply 3
Original post by Boucly
It is supposed to be a dash, the silly punctuation that I don't really know how to use but try to anyway.


Then, in that case, -2-3 = -5
Reply 4
Original post by Boucly
I have came across quite a few students who just cannot seem to grasp the basic concepts of arithmetics on negative numbers. For example, 23-2-3 seems to give them a hard time, no matter how I explain it -- $2-3$ is $1$; there are negatives involved; the answer must have a negative; answer is obviously -1.

In the end, due to time constraints, I had to give them a set of rules to follow instead (eg. two negatives make a plus). However, just forcing them to learn the rules seems rather .. non-mathematical.

On the other hand, I cannot think of a good intuitive model to teach them. The closest I can think of is the balance on a credit card. This still does not cover the operation of taking away negative numbers. I suppose there is cancelling a transaction, but that forces subtraction to take on multiple roles, since subtraction is intuitively "take out money".

Now, I cannot remember how I learnt this. It might well have been brute-forcing memorisation. I would like to do better.

TL;DR: How did you learn to manipulate negative numbers?


I can't remember in the slightest how I was taught it, but an example of their use that springs to mind and that kids might be able to quickly relate to is with equipment in RPG games. For instance something that boosts certain attributes with a penalty for others (+2 Strength, -1 Agility for a set of armour, say).

Good luck :smile:
Original post by Boucly
It is supposed to be a dash, the silly punctuation that I don't really know how to use but try to anyway.


Weaker students routinely have problems with the order of subtraction (and division).

When you say 2 - 3 they see 3 - 2.

When you say 4 / 8 they are likely to offer 2 as the answer.
Original post by Stanno
I can't remember in the slightest how I was taught it, but an example of their use that springs to mind and that kids might be able to quickly relate to is with equipment in RPG games. For instance something that boosts certain attributes with a penalty for others (+2 Strength, -1 Agility for a set of armour, say).

Good luck :smile:


Are you Sheldon's nephew?
Reply 7
Original post by TenOfThem
Then, in that case, -2-3 = -5


And the bit after the dash is supposed to be their logic behind their answer. I didn't articulate properly there. May be that's why I couldn't get them to understand.
Reply 8
Simply use a number line. Then they can see the effect of moving leftwards inside the negative half. They must be made to understand what it really means to perform an operation on a number, as far as I can see graphical methods are going to help with that.
Reply 9
Original post by Stanno
I can't remember in the slightest how I was taught it, but an example of their use that springs to mind and that kids might be able to quickly relate to is with equipment in RPG games. For instance something that boosts certain attributes with a penalty for others (+2 Strength, -1 Agility for a set of armour, say).

Good luck :smile:


Games, good idea. I didn't think about that.
Reply 10
Original post by Mr M
Are you Sheldon's nephew?


no... :confused:
Do it the same way you'd teach a child how to add and subtract positivr numbers. Use a number line and show negative numbers on them then count along it to do a basic sum, most kids don't understand absolute values (I'm assuming that's what the $ signs were representing) so using them to explain negative numbers is overcomplicating things.
Reply 12
Original post by scrotgrot
Simply use a number line. Then they can see the effect of moving leftwards inside the negative half. They must be made to understand what it really means to perform an operation on a number, as far as I can see graphical methods are going to help with that.


Their original teachers also did that. And I also tried it. Number lines just seem to confuse them even more. They just don't like to use number lines.
For girls you should always teach negative numbers using the example of Ken parking Barbie's convertible in an underground garage*.

Spoiler

Original post by TenOfThem
Then, in that case, -2-3 = -5


I think OP is trying to use the $ symbol to represent absolute values, so $2-3$ is actually |2-3|=1
Reply 15
Original post by Mr M
Weaker students routinely have problems with the order of subtraction (and division).

When you say 2 - 3 they see 3 - 2.

When you say 4 / 8 they are likely to offer 2 as the answer.


Yea, I can kinda see that. There's an 8, there's a 4 and there is a division. The "easiest way" to put these together is 8/4=2.
Original post by Boucly
Their original teachers also did that. And I also tried it. Number lines just seem to confuse them even more. They just don't like to use number lines.


How were you using it? There is no simpler way I can think of than using a number line.
Reply 17
Original post by justanotherposter
I think OP is trying to use the $ symbol to represent absolute values, so $2-3$ is actually |2-3|=1


That's not it either. I was using $...$ to show that the bits in the middle is a mathematical expression. To like.. separate the variable $a$ with a normal "a". I guess.. I'll change it. Sorry about that.
Original post by Boucly
And the bit after the dash is supposed to be their logic behind their answer. I didn't articulate properly there. May be that's why I couldn't get them to understand.


I am still extremely confused by what your are trying to say in the OP


However ... in the spirit of trying to help ... one of the things I do when adding or subtracting is to use hand gestures

moving my hand up or down to indicate + or -

making sure that I ensure my hand is very low when starting or ending on a negative value
Reply 19
Original post by justanotherposter
How were you using it? There is no simpler way I can think of than using a number line.


Counting. For 4+2, start at 4 and count 2 more. Similarly for subtraction.

But when subtraction on negative numbers come along, everything just flies out the window.

Quick Reply

Latest