The Student Room Group

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Reply 1
lgs98jonee
At oxford, I have seen that u get more than one interview at different colleges...How far is this true for maths and do u get to choose ur second and third choice colleges, or only ur first and then be allocated ur others?
Can u get an offer from more than one college?
Would anyone strongly reccomend an open application?


I know bits of this...
I think you're more likely to get second interviews in sciences and maths; not sure why but this seems to be the trend. You don't get to choose your 2nd and 3rd choices unless your 2nd choice is either Harris Manchester (you've got to be 21 or over) or a PPH (if you don't know what one is you probably aren't going to put it as your second choice). You can only get an offer from one college.
Open applications suit some people, I didn't go for one as there were some colleges I distinctly liked and others I distinctly didn't.
Reply 2
lgs98jonee
At oxford, I have seen that u get more than one interview at different colleges...How far is this true for maths and do u get to choose ur second and third choice colleges, or only ur first and then be allocated ur others?
Can u get an offer from more than one college?
Would anyone strongly reccomend an open application?

I've been told that you will definately get more than 1 interview for maths.
You only chose one college - and even then its not guarenteed that this college will interview.
Open applications is meant to slightly increase your chances of getting in, but it would mean that you may end up at a less popular college.
Reply 3
Katie Heskins
I've been told that you will definately get more than 1 interview for maths.
You only chose one college - and even then its not guarenteed that this college will interview.
Open applications is meant to slightly increase your chances of getting in, but it would mean that you may end up at a less popular college.


Actually (I think) from the figures they publish, people who make open applications are about half as likely as people who specify a college to get in. I don't know why; people who specify might be more prepared or something.
Reply 4
RxB
Actually (I think) from the figures they publish, people who make open applications are about half as likely as people who specify a college to get in. I don't know why; people who specify might be more prepared or something.


Perhaps it is mainly the less strong candidates who would make open applications, as it does increase someone's chances a little. Perhaps also people who make open applications tend to be less "serious" about getting into Oxbridge -- i.e. people who just can't be bothered to pick a college.
Reply 5
How many interviews is one likely to get for English at Oxford??
Alexander
Perhaps it is mainly the less strong candidates who would make open applications, as it does increase someone's chances a little. Perhaps also people who make open applications tend to be less "serious" about getting into Oxbridge -- i.e. people who just can't be bothered to pick a college.


I disagree totally. The way I see it, if you are serious about Oxbridge you won't care about which college you are put in. Surely if you are serious about going to Oxbridge you won't let considerations like that impair your chances. However, it is of course true that if you were so sure of yourself that you were convinced of receiving an offer, you could choose whichever college you liked.

edit: I was given negative reputation for this post. Was it as controversial as all that? Take it easy can't you?
Reply 7
oldthrashbarg
The way I see it, if you are serious about Oxbridge you won't care about which college you are put in. Surely if you are serious about going to Oxbridge you won't let considerations like that impair your chances.


Well I would say in general it would be quite the opposite: people who actually think that they might well be going to one of these colleges, and seriously wants to, would spend some time deciding on which one would be best for them; someone who sees themselves as an outside runner would be more likely to put in an open application on the grounds that they think that they probably wouldn't be going there anyway. Having said that, I quite agree that someone who seriously wants to go to Oxbridge would be very pleased to get an offer from any college, and I concede there are perhaps some people who are very keen to get to Oxbridge and thus make an open application in the hope of increasing their chances (possibly including myself on a reapplication next year).

However perhaps we should also think about tactical college choice, for example applying to the college that someone else from your school has gone to for the same subject.
Reply 8
Alexander
Well I would say in general it would be quite the opposite: people who actually think that they might well be going to one of these colleges, and seriously wants to, would spend some time deciding on which one would be best for them; someone who sees themselves as an outside runner would be more likely to put in an open application on the grounds that they think that they probably wouldn't be going there anyway. Having said that, I quite agree that someone who seriously wants to go to Oxbridge would be very pleased to get an offer from any college, and I concede there are perhaps some people who are very keen to get to Oxbridge and thus make an open application in the hope of increasing their chances (possibly including myself on a reapplication next year).

However perhaps we should also think about tactical college choice, for example applying to the college that someone else from your school has gone to for the same subject.


A few issues emerging from this:

Despite Oxford's (and I assume Cambridge's) efforts there is still this dense fog around large parts of admissions. Seems to me that they need to take this even more seriously and provide more data so that people can make decisions on fact not myth, rumour or supposition. At the moment people who come from schools with Oxbridge track records are at an advantage. Whilst many get in without this, many more do not.

People do need to be tactical about college choice. A few candidates would get into any college - often for more than one subject! The rest of us have to think more carefully about where to apply.

One issue that doesn't seem to be fully covered in the prospectus is how the pooling that goes on in some subjects works. So the groups system for humanties is not widely publicised. It should also be more widely known that some colleges e.g. Magdalen and Merton pass on far more candidates who get accepted elsewhere than almost anywhere else - or so it appears.

Having seen the record over a few years for my own school I was surprised at the patterns - very high success rates at some colleges, less so elsewhere, some 'interesting' college/course patterns.

I'd guess Oxford and Cambridge have a couple of years to sort out the many oddities in their admissions systems. I imagine in a few years time we will have far less college influence in admissions and far more department based selection. It's probably the only way to ensure that more of the best applicants are selected.
Reply 9
Alexander
However perhaps we should also think about tactical college choice, for example applying to the college that someone else from your school has gone to for the same subject.


Everyone connected to Admissions at the university puts an incredible amount of energy into promoting the fact that you do not need any 'inside knowledge' or 'connections' in order to increase your chance of success. This work is easily undone: one tiny false or misleading comment takes double or triple the time to put right and encourage people to have the confidence to apply.

Open Applications: I've just picked up the admission statistics for those who applied in 2002 and started 2003 (the current first year). As far as I remember, 12% of those who made open applications were successful.
Reply 10
grey faerie
Everyone connected to Admissions at the university puts an incredible amount of energy into promoting the fact that you do not need any 'inside knowledge' or 'connections' in order to increase your chance of success. This work is easily undone: one tiny false or misleading comment takes double or triple the time to put right and encourage people to have the confidence to apply.

Open Applications: I've just picked up the admission statistics for those who applied in 2002 and started 2003 (the current first year). As far as I remember, 12% of those who made open applications were successful.


I made an open application and was offered a place. I did not do it because I thought it was easier, because I was not serious about Oxford or because I was too lazy to pick a college (all suggested earlier in the thread). I did it because my school has no links with any particular college and neither do any members of my family. I visited several colleges, but they were all good in different ways. In the end I decided that should I get an offer, I would feel grateful and happy whichever college I was in. I think open applications are great for people with little experience of Oxford and help to widen access to the university. I certainly don't regret making one! :smile:
Reply 11
EmJ
I made an open application and was offered a place. I did not do it because I thought it was easier, because I was not serious about Oxford or because I was too lazy to pick a college (all suggested earlier in the thread). I did it because my school has no links with any particular college and neither do any members of my family. I visited several colleges, but they were all good in different ways. In the end I decided that should I get an offer, I would feel grateful and happy whichever college I was in. I think open applications are great for people with little experience of Oxford and help to widen access to the university. I certainly don't regret making one! :smile:

Can I just ask where you were placed?
scanner
Despite Oxford's (and I assume Cambridge's) efforts there is still this dense fog around large parts of admissions. Seems to me that they need to take this even more seriously and provide more data so that people can make decisions on fact not myth, rumour or supposition.


I agree with you entirely -- however I don't see that this particular issue of why open applicants might have a lower success rate than those who specify a college can really be explained by statistics: all that the Oxbridge admissions offices can do is assure people that making an open application will not lower someone's chances per se -- instead perhaps quite the opposite.

On the subject of statistics, I would be interested in seeing the source for what RxB says -- if it turns out he remembered incorrectly this could be a useless debate!

grey faerie
Everyone connected to Admissions at the university puts an incredible amount of energy into promoting the fact that you do not need any 'inside knowledge' or 'connections' in order to increase your chance of success. This work is easily undone: one tiny false or misleading comment takes double or triple the time to put right and encourage people to have the confidence to apply.


I myself agree that such "connections" as I mentioned probably don't (and certainly shouldn't!) make much difference, if any, but you would be surprised by how much emphasis some schools can put on such tactics -- especially getting people to apply to the same college that someone else from the school went to and got a first; thus I think it possible there is something in it.

EmJ
I made an open application and was offered a place. I did not do it because I thought it was easier, because I was not serious about Oxford or because I was too lazy to pick a college (all suggested earlier in the thread). I did it because my school has no links with any particular college and neither do any members of my family. I visited several colleges, but they were all good in different ways. In the end I decided that should I get an offer, I would feel grateful and happy whichever college I was in. I think open applications are great for people with little experience of Oxford and help to widen access to the university. I certainly don't regret making one! :smile:


Fair enough; but I'm sure you realise that I didn't say everybody who made an open application thinks along the lines of my suggestions -- they were simply suggestions to explain the lower success rates amongst open applicants.
Reply 13
Alexander
I agree with you entirely -- however I don't see that this particular issue of why open applicants might have a lower success rate than those who specify a college can really be explained by statistics: all that the Oxbridge admissions offices can do is assure people that making an open application will not lower someone's chances per se -- instead perhaps quite the opposite.

On the subject of statistics, I would be interested in seeing the source for what RxB says -- if it turns out he remembered incorrectly this could be a useless debate!

I myself agree that such "connections" as I mentioned probably don't (and certainly shouldn't!) make much difference, if any, but you would be surprised by how much emphasis some schools can put on such tactics -- especially getting people to apply to the same college that someone else from the school went to and got a first; thus I think it possible there is something in it.


People in colleges like to feel that candidates have a specific reason for applying to their college and in particular they like candidates who share their interests to some extent. Whereas open applications are allocated where there are lower applicant numbers. It should mean open applicants have a better chance of getting in but it doesn't work that way. Oxford should publish the figures - let people make clear, informed choices based on recent data. The university would be on dangerous ground if they are making assurances on open apps that are not supported fully by the figures.

On the school connections issue. Most tutors I have ever spoken to are simply keen to select the strongest candidates to teach.The days of deals with some schools are also long gone. However it is undeniably true that some schools put a lot of effort into helping candidates with their applications.Some individuals also pay for this help as it is offered by some private companies. Where schools have a track record of students they have a very rich source of information on the experience of past candidates. My own sixth form in a typical year has 100+ Oxbridge applicants. As most of these complete feedback sheets and receive feedback from the colleges, the institution is drawing on the experiences of hundereds of applications. This can only be helpful in making a choice. It's not a special connection of any sort but we did not need to make decisions unprepared or with a shortage of information and advice. Not at all applicants are in that position.
scanner
People in colleges like to feel that candidates have a specific reason for applying to their college and in particular they like candidates who share their interests to some extent. Whereas open applications are allocated where there are lower applicant numbers. It should mean open applicants have a better chance of getting in but it doesn't work that way. Oxford should publish the figures - let people make clear, informed choices based on recent data. The university would be on dangerous ground if they are making assurances on open apps that are not supported fully by the figures.


But I thought that in Oxford the college supposedly doesn't get to know who applied through an open application and who applied directly.
Reply 15
Alexander
But I thought that in Oxford the college supposedly doesn't get to know who applied through an open application and who applied directly.

Ah... the innocence of youth...
Reply 16
Alexander
But I thought that in Oxford the college supposedly doesn't get to know who applied through an open application and who applied directly.


They don't.
Reply 17
grey faerie
They don't.


Unless they recognise the guy's handwriting who puts the college choice in, which apparently isn't hard to do.
Reply 18
grey faerie
They don't.


Don't they get to see your "Oxford form" (that green thing)? And won't it say in there which college you chose?
Reply 19
H&E
Don't they get to see your "Oxford form" (that green thing)? And won't it say in there which college you chose?


I think it might be that they only see that if you've written something in the part where you can give them any extra information specific to Oxford that you wouldn't have put on your UCAS form.