DerPreußenPanzer
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Hi

This might sound like I'm perpetuating pernicious rhetoric, but I have a question to present, to anyone who will respond.

Why are European powers intervening in these pointless wars ? Is it rapacity, lust for ultimate power or even expansionism. There are so many problems here in Europe, which make personally sad.

Please try to give a sensible answer, I've been questioning this for quite a lengthy period. To further elucidate, Why is there a need to intervene to places like Middle East, which will never conform to set criteria by the Western world. Being an eastern European living in the Great Britain, taking an ardent interest in Politics/Military History/Economics, I have uncovered much hidden suffering by researching last 500 years in Europe. Never ending wars, Fascism & Oligarchic states. Why can't Europe first solve the internal hysterias, state induced paranoias which are as transparent as their greed. Political Dilution, a state of constant uncertainty which History holds is morbidly fascinating. Everything collapses in their due time.

I just wish to ask the community, if the world we live in is so unfair and compromising. Why are we entering these troubled lands, and causing more suffering. All I see in my current understanding is that war is a very profitable avenue, rapacity is not ignominious if the induced state of chaos in the end introduces something positive in the eyes of the society.

Kind Regards.
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Aj12
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There is no one answer for why a state will want to involve itself in the affairs of another you can only really make any meaningful observations on a case by case basis. There is no overall rule or reason that would compel a country to get involved with another. Take the recent French interventions in Africa, they are to help stabilize the continent and therefore contribute towards European security and secondly because Hollande is unpopular at home so as with many leaders has taken refuge in foreign policy.

Have to hugely disagree with you if you think war is profitable.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Aj12)
There is no one answer for why a state will want to involve itself in the affairs of another you can only really make any meaningful observations on a case by case basis. There is no overall rule or reason that would compel a country to get involved with another. Take the recent French interventions in Africa, they are to help stabilize the continent and therefore contribute towards European security and secondly because Hollande is unpopular at home so as with many leaders has taken refuge in foreign policy.

Have to hugely disagree with you if you think war is profitable.

Conflict can be profitable. Expansion into other lands, removal of a political opponent. Many quite awful things, I would think. War and Politics are both very similar.
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Aj12
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(Original post by DerPreußenPanzer)
Conflict can be profitable. Expansion into other lands, removal of a political opponent. Many quite awful things, I would think. War and Politics are both very similar.
Looking at American actions in Afghanistan and Iraq I fail to see much profit. I can't actually think of any recent conflicts that saw wide spread profits. Or that in the long run did not end up doing more damage to the instigating power.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Aj12)
Looking at American actions in Afghanistan and Iraq I fail to see much profit. I can't actually think of any recent conflicts that saw wide spread profits. Or that in the long run did not end up doing more damage to the instigating power.

Yes Indeed, modern conflict is much different. Contemporary military action is like a shadow of what is used to be, thankfully. I will give you that one. I was referring of rhetoric to during the days of Empire. Niccolo Machiavelli states profit which stems from war clearly, in his 'The Prince' and 'Art of War. I agree that during the days of peace in Europe, war currently is a foolish endeavour. And one would question why do I generate such animosity towards USA.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DerPreußenPanzer)
Hi

This might sound like I'm perpetuating pernicious rhetoric, but I have a question to present, to anyone who will respond.

Why are European powers intervening in these pointless wars ? Is it rapacity, lust for ultimate power or even expansionism. There are so many problems here in Europe, which make personally sad.

Please try to give a sensible answer, I've been questioning this for quite a lengthy period. To further elucidate, Why is there a need to intervene to places like Middle East, which will never conform to set criteria by the Western world. Being an eastern European living in the Great Britain, taking an ardent interest in Politics/Military History/Economics, I have uncovered much hidden suffering by researching last 500 years in Europe. Never ending wars, Fascism & Oligarchic states. Why can't Europe first solve the internal hysterias, state induced paranoias which are as transparent as their greed. Political Dilution, a state of constant uncertainty which History holds is morbidly fascinating. Everything collapses in their due time.

I just wish to ask the community, if the world we live in is so unfair and compromising. Why are we entering these troubled lands, and causing more suffering. All I see in my current understanding is that war is a very profitable avenue, rapacity is not ignominious if the induced state of chaos in the end introduces something positive in the eyes of the society.

Kind Regards.
A mixture of cultural imperialism and strategic interest.

Cultural imperialism is justified by the fact that some countries are largely incompatible with the views of the west (Afghanistan) and strategic interest is justified by the fact that Syria is a puppet state of Iran.

(Original post by Aj12)
Looking at American actions in Afghanistan and Iraq I fail to see much profit. I can't actually think of any recent conflicts that saw wide spread profits. Or that in the long run did not end up doing more damage to the instigating power.
Its truer to say that wars not involving the UK are profitable for the UK. We are after all one of the largest arms dealers in the world.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Rakas21)
A mixture of cultural imperialism and strategic interest.

Cultural imperialism is justified by the fact that some countries are largely incompatible with the views of the west (Afghanistan) and strategic interest is justified by the fact that Syria is a puppet state of Iran.



Its truer to say that wars not involving the UK are profitable for the UK. We are after all one of the largest arms dealers in the world.


Surely if they are incompatible, they should be just completely left alone....That is my opinion only. If imperialism is an attractive initiative, for a country like America, what do Brits have to say for themselves.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DerPreußenPanzer)
Surely if they are incompatible, they should be just completely left alone....That is my opinion only. If imperialism is an attractive initiative, for a country like America, what do Brits have to say for themselves.
No. Its naive to think that Islamists will leave us alone if we stay away and that's evidenced by North Africa being infected by terrorists.

I don't really care whether the balance of power lies with the USA, Europe or China but I'll be dammed if the UK will submit to tyrants, terrorists or theocracies.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Rakas21)
No. Its naive to think that Islamists will leave us alone if we stay away and that's evidenced by North Africa being infected by terrorists.

I don't really care whether the balance of power lies with the USA, Europe or China but I'll be dammed if the UK will submit to tyrants, terrorists or theocracies.
The fear of ethnic minorities has been exacerbated by western governments. I think Nationalism and domestic militancy is more of a problem, but I'm biased. Great Britain needs to pick herself up, and start putting pressure upon diplomatic community. I think that is prudent, but I personally like the EU, but every nation should be able to have its say in Europe if its European.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DerPreußenPanzer)
The fear of ethnic minorities has been exacerbated by western governments. I think Nationalism and domestic militancy is more of a problem, but I'm biased. Great Britain needs to pick herself up, and start putting pressure upon diplomatic community. I think that is prudent, but I personally like the EU, but every nation should be able to have its say in Europe if its European.
Aye and I find nationalism limiting myself.

I do however have very little faith in diplomacy when it comes to the three T's and so I do believe that the west and China should project and protect their interests because when it comes down to it the world is a far better place under the control of the USA, Europe and China than it is anybody else.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Aye and I find nationalism limiting myself.

I do however have very little faith in diplomacy when it comes to the three T's and so I do believe that the west and China should project and protect their interests because when it comes down to it the world is a far better place under the control of the USA, Europe and China than it is anybody else.


I agree with you, except I believe power should be held in the hands of Europe. I despise USA, while China can develop an Asian powerhouse if she wants, there should be trade, but no distribution of power.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DerPreußenPanzer)
I agree with you, except I believe power should be held in the hands of Europe. I despise USA, while China can develop an Asian powerhouse if she wants, there should be trade, but no distribution of power.
Sadly we live now in a multipolar world. A unified Europe Is to its advantage but there id no longer a single power.
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DerPreußenPanzer
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Sadly we live now in a multipolar world. A unified Europe Is to its advantage but there id no longer a single power.

Globalisation is a concept which has been around ever since days of Mr Marx, but now we live in a political set up, in which speculation is a very difficult affair.
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Kiss
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(Original post by Aj12)
There is no one answer for why a state will want to involve itself in the affairs of another you can only really make any meaningful observations on a case by case basis. There is no overall rule or reason that would compel a country to get involved with another. Take the recent French interventions in Africa, they are to help stabilize the continent and therefore contribute towards European security and secondly because Hollande is unpopular at home so as with many leaders has taken refuge in foreign policy.

Have to hugely disagree with you if you think war is profitable.
Was is profitable. More jobs, more people dying, more wealth spread about. The economy mobilises for one sole purpose. Just look at the US when they entered WWII.
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Aj12
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(Original post by Kiss)
Was is profitable. More jobs, more people dying, more wealth spread about. The economy mobilises for one sole purpose. Just look at the US when they entered WWII.
Ok thats one example, seems an exception looking at every other conflict they have been involved in since.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Aye and I find nationalism limiting myself.

I do however have very little faith in diplomacy when it comes to the three T's and so I do believe that the west and China should project and protect their interests because when it comes down to it the world is a far better place under the control of the USA, Europe and China than it is anybody else.
China is a barbaric state though, it shouldn't even be in the UN. It cares not one jot about human rights and gives its citizens no ability to choose their own government.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by felamaslen)
China is a barbaric state though, it shouldn't even be in the UN. It cares not one jot about human rights and gives its citizens no ability to choose their own government.
I agree but its now too powerful to exclude. It is at least a country that likes the status quo and is not ideologically at odds with the west.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I agree but its now too powerful to exclude. It is at least a country that likes the status quo and is not ideologically at odds with the west.
It wouldn't be powerful if nobody listened to it.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by felamaslen)
It wouldn't be powerful if nobody listened to it.
It has a billion potential consumers and there's no way of enforcing a trade embargo against it.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by Rakas21)
It has a billion potential consumers and there's no way of enforcing a trade embargo against it.
I suppose it's like a massive Saudi Arabia.
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