women earn more=good men earn more=bad

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mimi112
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rning-more-men

Young women are now earning more than men – that's not sexist, just fair. It is not often, in these dark times, that one stumbles across a snippet of good economic news. So it's strange that one such shaft of sunlight in the gloom has gone mostly unsung.
feminist logic for equal rights 101

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Dez
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Quoting out of context = fail.

Women aged 20-29 earn more than men in that same age group. For every age group above that, men still earn more than women. The pay gap is still horrendously skewed towards men, hence why the reversal in 20-29 year olds is a good thing, as it helps to bring balance.

Also seeing as men have been at the top of the pay ladder for centuries already, I'd argue that women have earned at least a little time at the top. Things are never going to be exactly even, so long as the pay gap doesn't end up completely skewed in favour of one gender or the other there really isn't a problem.
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mimi112
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(Original post by Dez)
Quoting out of context = fail.

Women aged 20-29 earn more than men in that same age group. For every age group above that, men still earn more than women. The pay gap is still horrendously skewed towards men, hence why the reversal in 20-29 year olds is a good thing, as it helps to bring balance.

Also seeing as men have been at the top of the pay ladder for centuries already, I'd argue that women have earned at least a little time at the top. Things are never going to be exactly even, so long as the pay gap doesn't end up completely skewed in favour of one gender or the other there really isn't a problem.
no. she is happy because women are making more. the same way iq tests where girls score higher or women getting most degrees/going to college more or having the best results in exams are praised by the media. she should be happy with equality, not about women getting one up on the men. the pay gap has little to do with sexism in 99% of cases, it's mostly a matter of choices and biology.
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Dez
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(Original post by mimi112)
no. she is happy because women are making more.
Women are not earning more, as I just pointed out.

(Original post by mimi112)
the same way iq tests where girls score higher or women getting most degrees/going to college more or having the best results in exams are praised by the media.
Not relevant.

(Original post by mimi112)
she should be happy with equality, not about women getting one up on the men.
Women are not "getting one up on the man" in this situation. As I mentioned above, even if they were it wouldn't be the end of the world.

(Original post by mimi112)
the pay gap has little to do with sexism in 99% of cases, it's mostly a matter of choices and biology.
"choices and biology"? What on earth does that even mean? You're spouting nonsense here. The main issue with the pay gap tends to be maternity leave, hence why younger women have found a reprieve of sorts since they're less likely to get pregnant. And as the article makes abundantly clear women are not earning more than men overall, which is a problem only slightly rectified by the 20-29 age range pay boost. A shaft of sunlight through the gloom, indeed.
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Sammydemon
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(Original post by Dez)
Women are not earning more, as I just pointed out.
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mimi112
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(Original post by Dez)
Women are not earning more, as I just pointed out.



Not relevant.



Women are not "getting one up on the man" in this situation. As I mentioned above, even if they were it wouldn't be the end of the world.



"choices and biology"? What on earth does that even mean? You're spouting nonsense here. The main issue with the pay gap tends to be maternity leave, hence why younger women have found a reprieve of sorts since they're less likely to get pregnant. And as the article makes abundantly clear women are not earning more than men overall, which is a problem only slightly rectified by the 20-29 age range pay boost. A shaft of sunlight through the gloom, indeed.

Why the Gender Pay Gap is a Complete Myth

Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, so they naturally pay more. Top 10 most dangerous jobs (from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics): Fishers, loggers, aircraft pilots, farmers and ranchers, roofers, iron and steel workers, refuse and recyclable material collectors, industrial machinery installation and repair, truck drivers, construction laborers. They're all male-dominated jobs.

Men are far more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice). According to the White House report, "In 2009, only 7 percent of female professionals were employed in the relatively high paying computer and engineering fields, compared with 38 percent of male professionals." Professional women, on the other hand, are far more prevalent "in the relatively low-paying education and health care occupations."

Men are far more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated, and undesirable locations that pay more.Men work longer hours than women do. The average fulltime working man works 6 hours per week or 15 percent longer than the average fulltime working woman.

Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on weekends and evenings and therefore pay more.

Even within the same career category, men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher-paid areas of specialization. For example, within the medical profession, men gravitate to relatively high-stress and high-paying areas of specialization, like surgery, while women are more likely to pursue relatively lower-paid areas of specialization like pediatrician or dentist.

Despite all of the above, unmarried women who've never had a child actually earn more than unmarried men, according to Nemko and data compiled from the Census Bureau.

Women business owners make less than half of what male business owners make, which, since they have no boss, means it's independent of discrimination. The reason for the disparity, according to a Rochester Institute of Technology study, is that money is the primary motivator for 76% of men versus only 29% of women. Women place a higher premium on shorter work weeks, proximity to home, fulfillment, autonomy, and safety, according to Nemko.

It's hard to argue with Nemko's position which, simply put, is this: When women make the same career choices as men, they earn the same amount as men. As far as I'm concerned, this is one myth that has been officially and completely busted
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gend...complete-myth/
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mimi112
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i just read the comments from the article. when pretty much every guardian reader turns on you because of a leftist article , you know you've gone full ******.
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FlavaFavourFruit
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On average, men still earn higher.

Women just want to close that gap
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mimi112
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(Original post by FlavaFavourFruit)
On average, men still earn higher.

Women just want to close that gap

then they should start doing something about it, since most of it is because of their choices. as for maternity, don't have kids or marry a guy who'll stay at home or work part time. let's see how women dig that
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Dez
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That article has to be the biggest load of irrelevant claptrap I've read in quite some time. The author seems to confuse the concept of "person is employed as X" and "person wishes to be employed as X" several times, rendering large parts of the article useless. The analysis is hogwash, and the statistics being presented are all US-focused. Our labour market is a very different place to what the US has.

And in any case it doesn't try to disprove the pay gap (which rather obviously is real), instead it downplays the discrepancy by over-generalising and making massive assumptions on employment choices. Not helpful in the slightest.

The discrimination against women regarding maternity leave is very, very real. Managers do not want to employ women who are likely to take maternity leave, it's as simple as that. It's a huge problem, and definitely one of the major driving forces behind the pay gap at the moment.
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CheesusCrust
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(Original post by FlavaFavourFruit)
On average, men still earn higher.

Women just want to close that gap
When are women finally going to want to close the work-related death gap?
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LightBlueSoldier
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(Original post by Dez)

The discrimination against women regarding maternity leave is very, very real. Managers do not want to employ women who are likely to take maternity leave, it's as simple as that. It's a huge problem, and definitely one of the major driving forces behind the pay gap at the moment.
It's not discrimination. It's economics.


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Dez
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(Original post by LightBlueSoldier)
It's not discrimination. It's economics.


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Is that what you'd say if someone was fired for taking too much sick leave?
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Snagprophet
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(Original post by Dez)
Also seeing as men have been at the top of the pay ladder for centuries already, I'd argue that women have earned at least a little time at the top.
Yeah, that'll teach me for being such a sexist pig.
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Are you Shaw?
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(Original post by Dez)
Quoting out of context = fail.

Women aged 20-29 earn more than men in that same age group. For every age group above that, men still earn more than women. The pay gap is still horrendously skewed towards men, hence why the reversal in 20-29 year olds is a good thing, as it helps to bring balance.

Also seeing as men have been at the top of the pay ladder for centuries already, I'd argue that women have earned at least a little time at the top. Things are never going to be exactly even, so long as the pay gap doesn't end up completely skewed in favour of one gender or the other there really isn't a problem.
well you've blown any credibility and objectivity you had

sexist
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Dez
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(Original post by Are you Shaw?)
well you've blown any credibility and objectivity you had

sexist
If men and women are to be 100% equal then women need to spend the next 10 millenniums rulling and oppressing every man alive. A slight pay advantage is a very generous compromise.
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Are you Shaw?
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(Original post by Dez)
If men and women are to be 100% equal then women need to spend the next 10 millenniums rulling and oppressing every man alive. A slight pay advantage is a very generous compromise.
and the Germans are Nazis for their actions in ww2 right
and the British are imperialists
and you're racist (because white people have been racist)
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Dez
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(Original post by Are you Shaw?)
and the Germans are Nazis for their actions in ww2 right
and the British are imperialists
and you're racist (because white people have been racist)
I never implied men alive now are responsible for 10,000 years of oppression (although more than a few have actively contributed), so please put away your strawman.
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Are you Shaw?
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(Original post by Dez)
I never implied men alive now are responsible for 10,000 years of oppression (although more than a few have actively contributed), so please put away your strawman.
demonstrating logical fallacies through absurdity is not a strawman, it's your logic.
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garah
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The main reason why the media are portraying Men as "weak:" is to help women feeling better about themselves.
And I find it funny how the media constantly portraying men/husband as dumb, stupid, dopey and goofy, while the wife/women is smart and intelligent. I find it funny because, in REAL LIFE, it is actually the complete opposite.

Men are more logical and less emotional
Men are more talented at a variety of things
Men are stronger
Men come up with more ideas and inventions

Women are only good at caring for children and everything else related to them. That's why they don't need to get an education or have a job. Neither is needed for raising children and they have their mothers and other female relatives who will teach them how to care for their families.

God had created two sexes for different purposes that we each specialize in (yes there are a few outliers)
Women: cooking(even men are better), reproduction
Men: everything else
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