Why is the war in Iraq universally damned?

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Jjj90
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#1
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#1
Now i'll start this by stating that I really do not know much about this. I have a very general and basic knowledge about the circumstances surrounding the war in Iraq and i'm certainly not saying that I agree with it...

but...

Isn't it a fact that Saddam Hussein was indeed a vicious tyrant?

Why is opinion so universal on this matter? There doesn't seem to be anyone anywhere that agrees with the 'invasion'. Of course they went in on the pretence of nuclear weapons and there were non... but should this entirely nullify the overthrow of Saddam Hussein?

And sure, Iraq is hardly the cradle of middle-eastern democracy but it's certainly a lot closer than it ever would have been, and who's to say what the future holds.

And i'm not sure about this point, but a friend mentioned it so i'll put it out there... Is it possible that without the war in Iraq, without the 'increased liberties' of Iraqis, the Arab Spring would never have come into fruition? Surely people saw a despot being dislodged in Iraq and decided that they wanted the same, even if it was several years down the line.

I admit I might be talking trash and I've no doubt missed something fundamental...

But it's just something I've wondered about.
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Bill_Gates
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#2
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#2
Iraq had a lot of oil for the west and Saddam was doing a terrible task of utilising it. Bye Bye Saddam, Hello western oil companies.
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Rakas21
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#3
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#3
(Original post by Jjj90)
Now i'll start this by stating that I really do not know much about this. I have a very general and basic knowledge about the circumstances surrounding the war in Iraq and i'm certainly not saying that I agree with it...

but...

Isn't it a fact that Saddam Hussein was indeed a vicious tyrant?

Why is opinion so universal on this matter? There doesn't seem to be anyone anywhere that agrees with the 'invasion'. Of course they went in on the pretence of nuclear weapons and there were non... but should this entirely nullify the overthrow of Saddam Hussein?

And sure, Iraq is hardly the cradle of middle-eastern democracy but it's certainly a lot closer than it ever would have been, and who's to say what the future holds.

And i'm not sure about this point, but a friend mentioned it so i'll put it out there... Is it possible that without the war in Iraq, without the 'increased liberties' of Iraqis, the Arab Spring would never have come into fruition? Surely people saw a despot being dislodged in Iraq and decided that they wanted the same, even if it was several years down the line.

I admit I might be talking trash and I've no doubt missed something fundamental...

But it's just something I've wondered about.
Opinion is not as universal as media perception.

The majority of opposition to the Iraq war comes from isolationists on the right who think its not our problem and pacifists on the left who seem to think that tyrants will come to the peace table.

Personally I fully support the Iraq war, Saddam was a traitor to his people who robbed them liberty. The world is a better place without him.
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DorianGrayism
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#4
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#4
200,000+ people dead.

1000+ soldiers dead/maimed.

Oh….and the small lies about WMDs, Saddam Hussein being involved in 9/11 and etc.
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meenu89
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#5
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#5
Cue posters saying 'War Criminal'.:rolleyes:
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DorianGrayism
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Rakas21)
Opinion is not as universal as media perception.

The majority of opposition to the Iraq war comes from isolationists on the right who think its not our problem and pacifists on the left who seem to think that tyrants will come to the peace table.
.
The majority of opposition comes from the ordinary British Public. Not from crackpots on the left or right.

Only 30% support the War in Iraq.

It is attitudes like yours that are pervasive in Westminster. So, it's no wonder that people believe that those in power are a bunch of out of touch liars.
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Rakas21
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#7
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#7
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
The majority of opposition comes from the ordinary British Public. Not from crackpots on the left or right.

Only 30% support the War in Iraq.

It is attitudes like yours that are pervasive in Westminster. It is no wonder that people believe that those in power are a bunch of out of touch liars.
Polls at the initial invasion were higher.

Perhaps but the question to me is whether one of the most advanced military nations in the world should sit back while tyrants slaughter their people and allow them to stay in power afterward.

It is my firm belief that if people like Assad, Gadadfi or Saddam are aloud to run riot then the world will be a far worse place.
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username1221160
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#8
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#8
The problems in Iraq aren't just about Saddam and recent history. They stem back to the decline of the Ottoman Empire, at the very least.

I'm also not sure people were thinking about Iraq as a model when they rose up against their governments during the Arab Spring.
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Are you Shaw?
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#9
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#9
Because the death of a tyrant was not worth the total amount of casualties of innocent citizens.
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Aj12
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#10
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#10
Possibly because Iraq is such a terrible place right now. Its a lot better than it was under Saddam who managed to cause millions of deaths through his own actions as well as the Iran Iraq. If Iraq stabilizes within the next decade the invasion will no doubt be seen as being a good thing. I feel that Iraq has a far better chance of becoming a better place without Saddam.
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L i b
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Jjj90)
Why is opinion so universal on this matter? There doesn't seem to be anyone anywhere that agrees with the 'invasion'.
There are a lot of people who supported and continue to support intervention in Iraq. I opposed it originally, but it's quite probably won me over in the long-run.
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anarchism101
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Rakas21)
Polls at the initial invasion were higher.

Perhaps but the question to me is whether one of the most advanced military nations in the world should sit back while tyrants slaughter their people and allow them to stay in power afterward.

It is my firm belief that if people like Assad, Gadadfi or Saddam are aloud to run riot then the world will be a far worse place.
Plenty of countries, most notably in the 'Third Wave Democratisation' of the 1970s to 1990s, managed to overthrow their tyrants from within. On the other hand, plenty of efforts (mostly by the US, but the UK and France too) to overthrow both real and perceived dictators ended up with far worse people in charge.
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Rakas21
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#13
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#13
(Original post by anarchism101)
Plenty of countries, most notably in the 'Third Wave Democratisation' of the 1970s to 1990s, managed to overthrow their tyrants from within. On the other hand, plenty of efforts (mostly by the US, but the UK and France too) to overthrow both real and perceived dictators ended up with far worse people in charge.
Sure, but i don't think the western world should simply wait for people to get off their ass.
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Tigers
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Jjj90)
Now i'll start this by stating that I really do not know much about this. I have a very general and basic knowledge about the circumstances surrounding the war in Iraq and i'm certainly not saying that I agree with it...

but...

Isn't it a fact that Saddam Hussein was indeed a vicious tyrant?

Why is opinion so universal on this matter? There doesn't seem to be anyone anywhere that agrees with the 'invasion'. Of course they went in on the pretence of nuclear weapons and there were non... but should this entirely nullify the overthrow of Saddam Hussein?

And sure, Iraq is hardly the cradle of middle-eastern democracy but it's certainly a lot closer than it ever would have been, and who's to say what the future holds.

And i'm not sure about this point, but a friend mentioned it so i'll put it out there... Is it possible that without the war in Iraq, without the 'increased liberties' of Iraqis, the Arab Spring would never have come into fruition? Surely people saw a despot being dislodged in Iraq and decided that they wanted the same, even if it was several years down the line.

I admit I might be talking trash and I've no doubt missed something fundamental...

But it's just something I've wondered about.
Abu Grahib.The darkest moment in the History of the United States.Americans matched the Nazis
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Plainview
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#15
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#15
The means did not justify the ends.
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chazwomaq
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#16
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#16
Hindsight! As Rakas21 says, more people supported it at the start including a majority of politicians, which is the only opinion that counts. We can all be wise with hindsight.

As it happened, it turned out that Iraq didn't have WMD, there wasn't a credible political opposition to take Saddam's place, the insurgents were more widespread and fought for longer than anyone anticipated, and many more people died than we thought would. So of course it looks bad in retrospect.

Is being a vicious tyrant enough to justify an invasion? If so, "we" should have invaded Zimbabwe, Uganda, Haiti and a whole list of countries long ago. Of course, they are all poor countries without oil...
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n00
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Rakas21)
Perhaps but the question to me is whether one of the most advanced military nations in the world should sit back while tyrants slaughter their people and allow them to stay in power afterward.
Sure but when the most advanced military nations in the world have put so much effort into helping tyrants slaughter their people can they really to be trusted when they use tyrants slaughtering their people as an excuse to go and slaughter their people?
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Rakas21
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#18
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#18
(Original post by n00)
Sure but when the most advanced military nations in the world have put so much effort into helping tyrants slaughter their people can they really to be trusted when they use tyrants slaughtering their people as an excuse to go and slaughter their people?
The electorate can judge their trust in a party every 5 years, as one of the worlds biggest arms dealers we can't really stop that.
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GR3YFOXXX
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#19
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#19
The deposing a dictator justification doesn't really fly. The UK has a long and ignoble tradition of supporting and propping up dictators. See for example; Suharto, Saddam & Pinochet (Thatcher), Gaddafi (Blair).

There were and are far worse humanitarian examples that would require/deserve international intervention.

False pretexts.

Profit motive - oil, construction and weapons companies.

Huge cost to human life. Mainly Iraqi civilians.

Civil unrest in Iraq.

Iraq is in an infinitely worse position than it was during the Saddam years (as bad as they were).
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Fullofsurprises
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#20
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#20
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
200,000+ people dead.

1000+ soldiers dead/maimed.

Oh….and the small lies about WMDs, Saddam Hussein being involved in 9/11 and etc.
The lies and distortions that the Bush and Blair governments came out with as part of the justification for war were dismal and immoral.

That said..... certainly there has been a great deal of suffering in Iraq as a result of the US/allied invasion. However, there was also a great deal of suffering before, when Saddam was in charge. He was a mass murderer and an instigator of vile wars. His invasion of Iran (ardently supported by the West at the time, of course) cost the lives of more than half a million people and blighted many more. He was a also terrorising many people inside his country and killed and tortured numerous others outside.

That's not to say that the US and its allies haven't been less than completely truthful about their roles in supporting him in the past or about their motives in dealing with him more recently, but it isn't a simple equation about the deaths and suffering caused by the invasion.

Iraq is an artificial country set up for trouble since it was created by the arbitrary drawing of borders around previously separate peoples by the British and French colonial powers; since then it has mostly been ruled by harsh governments yet managed to modernise and have an educated population. What has happened is very tragic, but just standing on the sidelines from Saddam, ringing hands and saying there was nothing to be done (which infuriatingly is what we continue to do with Syria as a result of the muddle-headed response to Iraq) wasn't that great an option.

The real problem is that the way the war was run and in particular the aftermath, how the postwar nation building (or lack of it) was run, was shockingly bad. The Bush government were insanely inept and callous in their overall handling of the situations and chronically under-prepared (as were the British) when they went in.
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