Is society male dominated?

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purplestudent
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What are your opinions?
Have we, as a society, moved on from the 'glass ceiling'?
Or is it still the case that women are made to feel superior through traditional stereotypical roles?

There are many ways people can look at this, I'm doing an assignment on females in today's society so I thought it'd be interesting to hear your opinions.
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Sherry1993
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Hey

There are so many factors that can influence this!
But I would say, yes. Society is still male dominated, it is just a little more subtle now than it would have been 20+ years ago.
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Double Agent
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Biological differences mean we will always take on slightly different roles in society, its about a freedom of choice, expression and equal rights. Society is still patriarchal, but its moving in the right direction.
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Tom_green_day
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Oh jesus christ this is just a bag of worms!
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Katie_p
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Certain areas of society are male-dominated. Certain areas are female-dominated.
This is largely down to individual choice.
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Sherry1993
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Yeah it could turn quite tricky!

Yes equality and equal rights say we are all the same and their is no gender domination, but deep down we all know its still going on, and the truth is us females like it.

We are not supresed like we were years ago of course not, but we are still looked at, as less superior and we crave being looked after by the male species.
We want to be respected, and treated right of course, but male dominance will always linger round us, and we will always subcome to it, its in our nature as females to please the male.
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Катя
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(Original post by Double Agent)
Biological differences mean we will always take on slightly different roles in society
That may have been true in the past, when the person who was the strongest physically tended to rule the roost (and men are supposed to be stronger than women, although of course we all know exceptions), but that society is long gone. Now, leaders need to be able to think creatively, speak passionately, act compassionately, etc, etc — none of these traits are "biologically" restricted to either gender.
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Катя
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(Original post by Sherry1993)
its in our nature as females to please the male.
It's not in female nature, it's in female upbringing.
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Катя
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(Original post by Katie_p)
Certain areas of society are male-dominated. Certain areas are female-dominated.
This is largely down to individual choice.
"Individual choice," hmm.

You are a lot less free than you think.

Saying that those born female "naturally" just end up in the lowest paying jobs is like saying that those born poor "naturally" just end up in the lowest paying jobs. Obviously there are people who have broken out of both cycles, but they are exceptions, not rules.

It's certainly no coincidence that areas of society associated with strength and bravery (typically "male" traits) are run by men (politics, finance, etc), and areas of society associated with submissiveness and home-keeping (typically "female" traits) are run by women (maids, nurses, etc).

That is not equality. "Equality" will come when gender stereotypes (that nearly always work out in the favour of men — you know, the "dominant male & submissive female") stop being so prevalent in society.
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Drunk Punx
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In the sense that we still live in a patriarchal society, yes.
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Katie_p
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(Original post by Катя)
"Individual choice," hmm.

You are a lot less free than you think.

Saying that those born female "naturally" just end up in the lowest paying jobs is like saying that those born poor "naturally" just end up in the lowest paying jobs. Obviously there are people who have broken out of both cycles, but they are exceptions, not rules.

It's certainly no coincidence that areas of society associated with strength and bravery (typically "male" traits) are run by men (politics, finance, etc), and areas of society associated with submissiveness and home-keeping (typically "female" traits) are run by women (maids, nurses, etc).

That is not equality. "Equality" will come when gender stereotypes (that nearly always work out in the favour of men — you know, the "dominant male & submissive female") stop being so prevalent in society.
Gender equality won't come whilst people insist that women who want to be in caring or nurturing roles are forced into it and males who want to be in aggressive or physical roles are likewise forced into it. I have never been told I couldn't do something I wanted to do because of my gender. Yet if I wanted to do a stereotypically female job, I would be told that I want to because I've been subjugated and I'm not actually free to make that choice. Riiight.
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Sherry1993
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It is the female that doesnt allow for this to happen. Why? Because I would say 90% of females, do not want to 'get their hands dirty' Why would she want to be out labouring, when she can be at home hanging out the washing - which coming back to physical strength only makes snese that she hangs up clothes, whilst he lifts bricks and builds walls...

She doesnt want to get involved in politics and heated debates about taxes, she wants the man to deal with this, so she has no worries. She wants to rely on him to look after her. Not the other way around
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Катя
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(Original post by Katie_p)
Gender equality won't come whilst people insist that women who want to be in caring or nurturing roles are forced into it and males who want to be in aggressive or physical roles are likewise forced into it. I have never been told I couldn't do something I wanted to do because of my gender. Yet if I wanted to do a stereotypically female job, I would be told that I want to because I've been subjugated and I'm not actually free to make that choice. Riiight.
Strawman.

You, judging from the "riiight", feel like you have been given a completely free choice. That's great!

Many women grow up in societies where women typically go on to do submissive jobs, not 'dominant' jobs. Therefore, when all of them follow suit, you can't help but wonder how much of that choice is "free".

It's like the argument I hear sometimes that women diet / work out / wax all their pubic hair off because they genuinely want to. I have no doubt that some do, and that's great. However, very few women are born with an innate disgust towards their body hair or their not-that-toned bodies; they grow into it. Had we grown up in some forest in an equal — ha, or even matriarchal — tribe thousands of years ago, then the way both men and women act would be very, very different.

TL;DR: I'm sorry you thought that I was discounting all of your personal choices by saying "oh but that's just society". What I was trying to say was "society has a bigger impact on us than we like to think". That's it. I think the same thing when I see disproportionate amounts of men in engineering, at the tops of FTSE 100 companies, and in presidential positions.
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Quady
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(Original post by Катя)
That may have been true in the past, when the person who was the strongest physically tended to rule the roost (and men are supposed to be stronger than women, although of course we all know exceptions), but that society is long gone. Now, leaders need to be able to think creatively, speak passionately, act compassionately, etc, etc — none of these traits are "biologically" restricted to either gender.
No, but the 'kids thing' isn't going away. Even if you assume men want children as eagerly as women there is no mechanism to make an average man to have their career derailed by children as an average woman.
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Катя
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(Original post by Sherry1993)
It is the female that doesnt allow for this to happen. Why? Because I would say 90% of females, do not want to 'get their hands dirty' Why would she want to be out labouring, when she can be at home hanging out the washing - which coming back to physical strength only makes snese that she hangs up clothes, whilst he lifts bricks and builds walls...

She doesnt want to get involved in politics and heated debates about taxes, she wants the man to deal with this, so she has no worries. She wants to rely on him to look after her. Not the other way around
I'm sorry, but do we still live in a Britain where men, by default, spend their days bricklaying and women, by default, spend their days hanging out the washing? This is not 1950.

You're saying that all women are "naturally" submissive, disinterested in world affairs, and need a "naturally" dominant, bulked-up, brick-layin' man to help out and to "take care" of everything. This is a very, very harmful thing believed by many to this day. Be careful.
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Katie_p
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(Original post by Катя)
Strawman.

You, judging from the "riiight", feel like you have been given a completely free choice. That's great!

Many women grow up in societies where women typically go on to do submissive jobs, not 'dominant' jobs. Therefore, when all of them follow suit, you can't help but wonder how much of that choice is "free".

It's like the argument I hear sometimes that women diet / work out / wax all their pubic hair off because they genuinely want to. I have no doubt that some do, and that's great. However, very few women are born with an innate disgust towards their body hair or their not-that-toned bodies; they grow into it. Had we grown up in some forest in an equal — ha, or even matriarchal — tribe thousands of years ago, then the way both men and women act would be very, very different.

TL;DR: I'm sorry you thought that I was discounting all of your personal choices by saying "oh but that's just society". What I was trying to say was "society has a bigger impact on us than we like to think". That's it. I think the same thing when I see disproportionate amounts of men in engineering, at the tops of FTSE 100 companies, and in presidential positions.
I'm not denying that society has a big influence us. I'm denying that this influence actually removes our freedom to make choices. As long as people are aware of the way society influences them, they can largely ignore it, if they even consider it to be an issue.

I think that a lot of young girls probably do bow down to peer and media pressure when it comes to things like body image, but within just a few months of doing so, they will question their motivation and either accept or change their habits. In fact, most people I know have far more disgust for the not-so-prevalent attitude that they should shave or look a certain way, than they do for their inability or unwillingness to conform to that attitude.

There are too many people who look at statistics about women in the workplace without looking at individual experiences. Yes, most CEOs and other top-level professionals are male. Show me a woman who has been turned down for such a position on the basis of her gender alone, and I'll consider that it might be an issue.

I apologise for the fact that my argument is anecdotal, but given that I'm arguing against the blind reliance on statistics for the opposite argument, and my lack of experience in this area, it's all I can provide.
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Quady
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(Original post by Катя)
I'm sorry, but do we still live in a Britain where men, by default, spend their days bricklaying and women, by default, spend their days hanging out the washing? This is not 1950.

You're saying that all women are "naturally" submissive, disinterested in world affairs, and need a "naturally" dominant, bulked-up, brick-layin' man to help out and to "take care" of everything. This is a very, very harmful thing believed by many to this day. Be careful.
How has happiness of women changed since 1950?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...la/4771908.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ms-527857.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ears-ago-.html

I'd be glad to have sources quatitively disagree...
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Катя
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(Original post by Quady)
No, but the 'kids thing' isn't going away. Even if you assume men want children as eagerly as women there is no mechanism to make an average man to have their career derailed by children as an average woman.
What do you mean 'mechanism to derail a career'? Pregnancy is pregnancy, nothing more, nothing less. Pregnancy (and, by extension, cooking and sex) is not all that women are for. It should not be synonymous with 'stay at home whilst the husband works'...

Yes, men and women are biologically different. No, that is not a reason to treat one gender as "superior" to another, or to assign home-keeping chores to one gender but not another.
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Sherry1993
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(Original post by Катя)
I'm sorry, but do we still live in a Britain where men, by default, spend their days bricklaying and women, by default, spend their days hanging out the washing? This is not 1950.

You're saying that all women are "naturally" submissive, disinterested in world affairs, and need a "naturally" dominant, bulked-up, brick-layin' man to help out and to "take care" of everything. This is a very, very harmful thing believed by many to this day. Be careful.
Yes, Yes we do. So Yeah woman work too but what are they doing? Office job, hairdressing, nursing, cleaning - as you stated before they fall into these submissive roles, because instinctively they sure as hell dont want to be out there with a tonne of bricks, or a chopsaw, or any other hard labouring material/tool.

Be realistic, world affairs are dominated by males, and thats not going to change, woman dont crave to be involved in this like men do. Its male dominated because its about controll and ego, who's **** is bigger.
Naturally Yes a woman has a submissive personality.
Growing up, Girls thrive to make their fathers proud, they look up to their brother, and as we get older we do most things to impress the male, then when entering relationships we do our up most best to ensure he is always pleased, and we call it 'love' but its not a matter of love, its a matter of his superiority, we all know it, we would worship the ground he walks on to keep him happy, just because we want to be protected and cared for, if we agree to his needs, he will support us and look after u, provide us all our wants. - Now that is what is naturally enbedded in every female.
In some it is stronger and more apparent, but in time you will see.
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Quady
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(Original post by Катя)
What do you mean 'mechanism to derail a career'? Pregnancy is pregnancy, nothing more, nothing less. Pregnancy (and, by extension, cooking and sex) is not all that women are for. It should not be synonymous with 'stay at home whilst the husband works'...
Yes, men and women are biologically different. No, that is not a reason to treat one gender as "superior" to another, or to assign home-keeping chores to one gender but not another.
I mean, how to do have a stuation where men and women have (on average) equal career chances while childbrith still exists?

What I put in bold is a very simplistic areguement. If you men and women perfectly equally sharing child rearing, on average a women would still need to stop working before the man. No?
Not everyone will be a couple, single parents will still exist and on average these single parents will be women. No?


How do you make the outcome equal?
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