Why the British are not aiming for professional job?

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Ravi Kumara
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Hai. I have been studying in UK for some time and was wondering why it is that the Britishers are not applying for jobs in technical field? I never hear English study math related courses. Why they are wasting time doing History, Literature these kind subjects when you can make big salary in things like chemical field, IT and software apps for banking init? I think I am feel like getting bored if I work in supermarket all day. If they can try why they are not doing so when there is all these opportunities here. Why the parents encourage these choices yar?
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nohomo
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You can still get into things like actuarial work with an English degree, though it's probably harder and less common.

Also, there's more to life than earning the most money. Perhaps, if they study English, they want to gain greater appreciation of the subject and try to be an author or something.
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RedArrow
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Woa I'm alive...
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KingStannis
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Maybe they want to be Lawyers, politicians, teachers, journalists, academics, business men/women?

Are these not professional jobs?
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username457532
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I'm British. Lots of my friends are. We study physics.
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Qari
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You must be trolling
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username1221160
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Maybe they don't wish to sell their souls to some corporation?
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lifelonged
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The OP sounds like a troll, or this is a poor joke. If not, then the world would be a very dull place if people just studied STEM subjects. I find mathematics fascinating, but I wouldn't want to live in world without great art, literature, or music. In addition, university isn't just (or at all) about getting a job.
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hslakaal
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Nothing wrong with an humanities degree. Plenty of fields, and whilst some degrees may appear to be useless, it's usually just because too many people do it.

And I see plenty of Brits in sciences courses.

HOWEVER, I do think there are fewer eager numbers for maths heavy sciences? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see equivalent levels of interest compared to other nations.
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Ggmu!
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Ends post with 'yar' (it's 'yaar')

He's a troll. 100% troll.
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(Original post by CompSciTeacher)
I study Computer Science but I plan to be a Computer Science teacher. However, I also have a science related or technical degree to fall back on.

You can also study a STEM subject and top it up to a law degree so any legal job is no excuse either. The world would progress quicker as would the human race if we all invested more time into the STEM subjects.

You can also go into politics with a STEM degree.

Most of the people I know who studied English, Art, History, Drama, etc. either work in superstores, as teachers because they didn't know what to do (some dropped out of PGCE because they did it as a B option and you will only succeed if your hearts in it - not for the faint hearted) and others work in restaurants.

I know one person with an English degree who has now gone on to top it up to a law degree because she struggles to get a job and whenever she goes for a job one of the questions is always 'why English?' and when she explains why they always seem taken aback as to why she didn't tailor her degree to suit a more professional path. Im not disrespecting English, I wouldn't do it myself as I don't class myself as a great storyteller but professionals/suits want professionals/suits with technical skills, communications skills, skills to make things, skills to to innovate, skills to sell, skills to deal with figures and so on.

The only person I know with a degree outside of STEM and they've gone on to a good job is someone with a business and accountancy degree although some of the modules were based on STEM as it clearly involves maths - not 100% a STEM subject but involved it. They now work at CERN and did very well through assessment to get there plus they've got a 1st.

STEM subjects are vital - they teach reasoning, logical thinking, computer skills and literacy, numeracy, the ability to innovate, the ability to communicate professional, the ability to research and understand something from a scientific viewpoint and construct good arguments.

Is a world completely built on STEM a good idea? No. Should every single person have a strong background in STEM subjects? Yes.

I'd regard a 2:2 in a STEM subject higher than a 1st in a non STEM subject unless that non STEM subject was law or architecture.
Meanwhile, out there in the real world there are many people who studied non-STEM subject who are doing very well in the work world. I work with many history, philosophy and language graduates. My maths, computer science and economics background has helped, but so has their non-STEM background.

You don't need a university degree for the world of work (even teaching computer science). Whilst some careers ask for one, that's more of a filter. Even doctors didn't have to have degrees until relatively recently. Some professions have required one e.g. law, but you can get there by other routes.

Whilst there are some shortages e.g. maths teachers. This is probably more an indication that teachers pay/status is too low and maths graduates feel that they have better choices.

Over 50% of graduates do non-STEM subjects - the vast majority go onto do very well (check some of the university stats).
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SophiaKeuning
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(Original post by Ravi Kumara)
Hai. I have been studying in UK for some time and was wondering why it is that the Britishers are not applying for jobs in technical field? I never hear English study math related courses. Why they are wasting time doing History, Literature these kind subjects when you can make big salary in things like chemical field, IT and software apps for banking init? I think I am feel like getting bored if I work in supermarket all day. If they can try why they are not doing so when there is all these opportunities here. Why the parents encourage these choices yar?
I don't specifically want a professional job but many people who study the arts will become lawyers or work in business. But no you're right, english people never study maths, it's unheard of. What an idiotic thread, yar?
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KingStannis
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(Original post by CompSciTeacher)
I study Computer Science but I plan to be a Computer Science teacher. However, I also have a science related or technical degree to fall back on.

You can also study a STEM subject and top it up to a law degree so any legal job is no excuse either. The world would progress quicker as would the human race if we all invested more time into the STEM subjects.

You can also go into politics with a STEM degree.

Most of the people I know who studied English, Art, History, Drama, etc. either work in superstores, as teachers because they didn't know what to do (some dropped out of PGCE because they did it as a B option and you will only succeed if your hearts in it - not for the faint hearted) and others work in restaurants.

I know one person with an English degree who has now gone on to top it up to a law degree because she struggles to get a job and whenever she goes for a job one of the questions is always 'why English?' and when she explains why they always seem taken aback as to why she didn't tailor her degree to suit a more professional path. Im not disrespecting English, I wouldn't do it myself as I don't class myself as a great storyteller but professionals/suits want professionals/suits with technical skills, communications skills, skills to make things, skills to to innovate, skills to sell, skills to deal with figures and so on.

The only person I know with a degree outside of STEM and they've gone on to a good job is someone with a business and accountancy degree although some of the modules were based on STEM as it clearly involves maths - not 100% a STEM subject but involved it. They now work at CERN and did very well through assessment to get there plus they've got a 1st.

STEM subjects are vital - they teach reasoning, logical thinking, computer skills and literacy, numeracy, the ability to innovate, the ability to communicate professional, the ability to research and understand something from a scientific viewpoint and construct good arguments.

Is a world completely built on STEM a good idea? No. Should every single person have a strong background in STEM subjects? Yes.

I'd regard a 2:2 in a STEM subject higher than a 1st in a non STEM subject unless that non STEM subject was law or architecture.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't justify your position. Also, you have no idea what English is as an academic subject if you think it's "storytelling" :rolleyes:. Unless, of course, she was doing a creative writing degree, and if that's the case then you can hardly lob her in with the Lit grads.

Sure you can get into the careers I mentioned with STEM degrees, but the majority of people wanting to go down those paths tends to be arts students. STEM students I find, often want to be, well, scientists. Lets face it, most people doing Maths and the sciences at A level don't generally have the intention of becoming Lawyers. They want to study those subjects to degree level, which is great. If you were making the argument that we need more science graduates, I would wholeheartedly agree; but you're not, you're trying to say that BA's won't lead you to any prosperous career. Most of the people involved in the careers I mentioned will generally hold BAs. The skills are just undeniably more relevant.

Arts degrees certainly teach you logical thinking skills, numeracy skills (a high proportion of them), more communicative skills than a Bsc and as for innovation, "skills to sell", and how to make things, neither type of degree inherently contains within itself those skills. You don't have a sound argument here to suggest that BSc's are inherently better at these things.

I don't agree that a 2:2 in an Bsc subjects is better than a 1st in BA subjects. I know too many people who are great at the sciences who are so incompetent when it comes to subjects such as history, English etc that it is absurd. Now, you can accuse me of using anecdotal evidence here, but I suggest there are less variables involved when it comes to what people excel at compared to the workplace.
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CompSciTeacher
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(Original post by KingStannis)
Anecdotal evidence doesn't justify your position. Also, you have no idea what English is as an academic subject if you think it's "storytelling" :rolleyes:. Unless, of course, she was doing a creative writing degree, and if that's the case then you can hardly lob her in with the Lit grads.

Sure you can get into the careers I mentioned with STEM degrees, but the majority of people wanting to go down those paths tends to be arts students. STEM students I find, often want to be, well, scientists. Lets face it, most people doing Maths and the sciences at A level don't generally have the intention of becoming Lawyers. They want to study those subjects to degree level, which is great. If you were making the argument that we need more science graduates, I would wholeheartedly agree; but you're not, you're trying to say that BA's won't lead you to any prosperous career. Most of the people involved in the careers I mentioned will generally hold BAs. The skills are just undeniably more relevant.

Arts degrees certainly teach you logical thinking skills, numeracy skills (a high proportion of them), more communicative skills than a Bsc and as for innovation, "skills to sell", and how to make things, neither type of degree inherently contains within itself those skills. You don't have a sound argument here to suggest that BSc's are inherently better at these things.
Clearly didn't read everything I said. Had you, you would have seen that I actually praised certain BA's such as Architecture. You can also get BA's in STEM fields because some have more design aspects to them like UI design or product design or web design. Nothing wrong with them either but they have a STEM focus. Not all STEM subjects are awarded with a BSc. Education is another great degree which is not a STEM subject but has a career focus. Thats fine imo.

I don't agree that a 2:2 in an Bsc subjects is better than a 1st in BA subjects. I know too many people who are great at the sciences who are so incompetent when it comes to subjects such as history, English etc that it is absurd. Now, you can accuse me of using anecdotal evidence here, but I suggest there are less variables involved when it comes to what people excel at compared to the workplace.
1. History to me is worthless. Its already happened and although we can learn from it we cannot change it. Yes its interesting to know but people can do that stuff in their own time freely as a hobby if they wish.

2. English to me is seen as a neutral degree. To me, an English person studying English at degree level just shows obvious flaws in the education system at a lower level. By the time you finish school you should know decent enough English and yes they should push students harder in school. Sorry, but I just regard a hell of a lot of degrees as worthless and I'll always believe that. I won't put downers on people who study them because thats their freedom of choice but I do think we'd be better off cutting some of these degrees out of the curriculum, shutting down around half of the universities and investing the money saved in the areas still open so we then have a smaller number of universities of excellence that train the best in the best fields. Also, scholarships can be handed out to aid the best.

To me university is not a hobby or a lifestyle choice, its an investment in your own future and an investment in getting a good degree related job at the end of it.

I personally think the PGCE (training/university) route is the best route and the fully academic route is wrong and in many cases no good. The combination of both academia and on the job training is the best all around for ensuring students leave with the right skills for employment.

I also believe the reason this country is in a mess is because we have people in politics with degrees in subjects such as history who do not possess the strong logical skills people in STEM subjects do which has been trained into them. Its not something you just have. Its something you come to learn and think in a particular way. Also, these people cannot understand simple budgeting (economics) which basically proves that they're mathematics (numbers) is disastrous and most of them have been career politicians who are as work shy as the benefit claimants they condemn. In other words, they're a joke.
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MagicNMedicine
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OP is just someone trolling pretending to be Indian.

I will flush him out.

Kallis was a better player than Tendulkar amirite.
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River85
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I contemplated closing this thread, for obvious reasons (see the OP) but th

Though it really gets tiring having the same debates...

(Original post by CompSciTeacher)
Most of the people I know who studied English, Art, History, Drama, etc. either work in superstores, as teachers because they didn't know what to do (some dropped out of PGCE because they did it as a B option and you will only succeed if your hearts in it - not for the faint hearted) and others work in restaurants.
Most I know work as Finance professions, solicitors, academics, musicians, charity campaigners, civil servants or started their own business.

I do appreciate that we have more humanities graduates than we have graduate positions, but this doesn't mean that most people I know from university (Durham), who studied humanities degrees, weren't able to enter professional employment.

I know one person with an English degree who has now gone on to top it up to a law degree because she struggles to get a job and whenever she goes for a job one of the questions is always 'why English?' and when she explains why they always seem taken aback as to why she didn't tailor her degree to suit a more professional path. Im not disrespecting English, I wouldn't do it myself as I don't class myself as a great storyteller but professionals/suits want professionals/suits with technical skills, communications skills, skills to make things, skills to to innovate, skills to sell, skills to deal with figures and so on.
Why should someone?

This takes us to the age old question of what the purpose of higher education is. I think it will be a sad day when higher educational simply amounts to vocational/preperation for the workplace. There always has been, and always will be, professional/vocational courses at university. With increased fees people will always look to get as much value from their degree as possible (which, for many, will be financial return).

The fact that a significant number (not necessarily majority) of humanities graduates don't enter professional graduate employment is no argument, for there are still many who do and fufill an important place in society.

STEM subjects are vital - they teach reasoning, logical thinking, computer skills and literacy, numeracy, the ability to innovate, the ability to communicate professional, the ability to research and understand something from a scientific viewpoint and construct good arguments.
A degree such as philosophy checks most of those boxes, and a person can learn computer literacy without needing to do a STEM subject.

And I am skeptical about whether STEM subjects really teach people to "construct good arguments" and reason, considering the poor debate skills I see on this forum from those with STEM degrees
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Chlorophile
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(Original post by Ravi Kumara)
Hai. I have been studying in UK for some time and was wondering why it is that the Britishers are not applying for jobs in technical field? I never hear English study math related courses. Why they are wasting time doing History, Literature these kind subjects when you can make big salary in things like chemical field, IT and software apps for banking init? I think I am feel like getting bored if I work in supermarket all day. If they can try why they are not doing so when there is all these opportunities here. Why the parents encourage these choices yar?
Because some people actually want a job they enjoy, not a job that will get them tons of money?
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CompSciTeacher
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(Original post by River85)
A degree such as philosophy checks most of those boxes, and a person can learn computer literacy without needing to do a STEM subject.
Not in the modern day they can't. Computer literacy in the modern and evolving world is far more than just general use of a computer. I know because I have to speak to computer illiterate people all of the time. I've sat in schools on placements where children know more than university graduates and students about computers honestly. There's plenty of graduates in non STEM fields who are computer illiterate and don't have a clue. I see some of them on Facebook asking the most basic questions that they should have been taught in year 7 or something.

If you're computer illiterate these days then I don't care what degree you have you're already being marked down by a lot of employers. The worlds becoming more reliant on computers yet people don't want to learn about them or just cant be bothered.
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CompSciTeacher
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(Original post by Chlorophile)
Because some people actually want a job they enjoy, not a job that will get them tons of money?
Which is why I want to go into teaching. However, I still have a STEM related degree. Its not about the money for me but I believe learning and excelling in a STEM subject is essential.

If they had 50/50 type degrees where you did half of a STEM subject such as Maths and half in another subject I think thats fine. It would give you more skills for later and vital skills at an advanced level.

There's plenty of adults out there including students who are computer illiterate, cannot debate logically, do not understand algebra or calculus, do not understand the importance of budgeting - mortgages - business etc. basic finance.

Its easy to see why this country is in the **** financially when people don't understand the numbers and are racking up debts and debts. Maths is the most under appreciated language in Britain. Go to Scandinavia or Germany and they're all clued up on it from a young age.
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River85
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(Original post by CompSciTeacher)
1. History to me is worthless. Its already happened and although we can learn from it we cannot change it. Yes its interesting to know but people can do that stuff in their own time freely as a hobby if they wish.
I'm not even going to get into the debate on whether History is a worthless academic discipline.

But what about someone who wants to work in the heritage sector and be a museum curator? Or archivist? How can such people sufficiently learn the subject "in their own time freely as a hobby" without access to teaching, books and journals? Even then, such professions require a very high level of professional knowledge with at least a Masters degree required. A PhD isn't uncommon for museum curators.

[QUOTE]2. English to me is seen as a neutral degree. To me, an English person studying English at degree level just shows obvious flaws in the education system at a lower level. By the time you finish school you should know decent enough English and yes they should push students harder in school./QUOTE]

You do realise an English degree is not simply "learning English", yes?

To me university is not a hobby or a lifestyle choice, its an investment in your own future and an investment in getting a good degree related job at the end of it.
Well that's your own personal decision. Some people can gain great value from their degrees (benefiting both themselves and society in general) without getting a "good degree related job".

I also believe the reason this country is in a mess is because we have people in politics with degrees in subjects such as history who do not possess the strong logical skills people in STEM subjects do which has been trained into them. Its not something you just have. Its something you come to learn and think in a particular way. Also, these people cannot understand simple budgeting (economics) which basically proves that they're mathematics (numbers) is disastrous and most of them have been career politicians who are as work shy as the benefit claimants they condemn. In other words, they're a joke.
Most MPs are not "Career politicians". Do some research on the backgrounds of a range of backbenchers. My old MP was a miner then a social worker, for example. My current MP was a teacher. The MP I had at university was a university academic (among other things). Even most Government Ministers aren't.

Surely Civil Servants must take some blame? Civil Servants come from a broad section, including STEM degrees.

And, again, what makes you think that humanities degrees don't have logical skills and the ability to argue? This is a core feature of a humanities degree! Moreover professions such as Barrister are not unusual among politicians, and many were members of university debating societies.
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