kingzebra
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I've been thinking about it, Ursula's quite an empowering character but she's also quite the anti-feminist archetype.
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Solivagant
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It's a cartoon. Stop overthinking things.
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MagicNMedicine
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Maybe its part of the cultural marxist feminazi movement to disempower men and destroy society.
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username1337098
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What makes you think she's an anti-feminist archetype?
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Are you Shaw?
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
Maybe its part of the cultural marxist feminazi movement to disempower men and destroy society.
lmfao, careful you might invoke Poe's law.
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kingzebra
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(Original post by Meyrin)
What makes you think she's an anti-feminist archetype?
It was just a theory, I've managed to come up with points for both arguments. In one sense her ambiguous utterances could represent feminist values due to her independent and imperative boldness to escape society’s imprisonment. In another sense, she could also be perceived as an anti-feminist archetype as she degrades the intellect and dynamic concept of equality for women. What do you think?
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kingzebra
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(Original post by CJG21)
It's a cartoon. Stop overthinking things.
Hey I'm a film and literature student, give me a break!
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kingzebra
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
Maybe its part of the cultural marxist feminazi movement to disempower men and destroy society.
Interesting insight!
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Clip
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The only power the 16 year old has to resolve a difficult situation is to persuade (sans voice) a handsome prince to kiss her.

Yes, this is clearly halfway between Erin Brockovich and The Female Eunuch.
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username1337098
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(Original post by kingzebra)
It was just a theory, I've managed to come up with points for both arguments. In one sense her ambiguous utterances could represent feminist values due to her independent and imperative boldness to escape society’s imprisonment. In another sense, she could also be perceived as an anti-feminist archetype as she degrades the intellect and dynamic concept of equality for women. What do you think?
But she's doing the latter to persuade Ariel to part with her voice. She knows she's naive enough to believe it.

To be honest, I thought it was done in such a way she was almost making fun of the concept.
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kingzebra
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(Original post by Meyrin)
But she's doing the latter to persuade Ariel to part with her voice. She knows she's naive enough to believe it.

To be honest, I thought it was done in such a way she was almost making fun of the concept.
But it's also to empower King Triton and rule the sea. She asserts independence and dominance yet she is killed, could this suggest that her power was seen as a threat to men? It is evident though that the patriarchal society's flaws that Ursula highlights are ignored by children because of her masculine half-human/half-octopus appearance.

I do agree though, her tone is quite mocking in the song 'Unfortunate Soul', as she scorns the idea of men preferring sexuality to intellect, 'the men up there don't like a lot of blabber, they think a girl who gossips is a bore, yes on land it's much preferred, for ladies not to say a word. This idea is illuminated by the fact that she is the first ever female villain is Disney to sing a song!

Like I said, I think she portrays quite an ambiguous figure which is what makes her interesting to analyse. I reckon she's quite an underrated villain! What do you think?
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Shizzam
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why do some people seem to think that there only exists two binaries: feminist and antifeminist? I mean, she is as she is. Disney portrayals have never been indubitably feminist in scope, but rather pro-choice.
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Alpha brah
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If you Google feminist articles on it, there are probs going to be a ton of them btw
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Robbie242
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Why does it matter? :lol:
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xForeverx
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(Original post by Robbie242)
Why does it matter? :lol:
Why does anything matter?
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EllieC130
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Perhaps it could have been considered one in it's time but now for a feminist film it's a bit outdated. Now it's just a good film
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redferry
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She gives up her life for bloke, not exactly feminist! Mulan was better for us go-getting women inm my opinion.
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iAngely
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Ursula is one of my favourite villains. The female villains in Disney movies are strong, independent women who have have been treated wrongly by someone else, thus their climb to power, only to be 'put back in their place' or killed by a man at the end. For little girls, that encourages them to want to be the princess characters, who a lot of the time are useless and weak and can't defend themselves or run away properly.

The only Disney princesses I like are Mulan, Merida and Anna and Olsa from Frozen (great film by the way). I wouldn't put Tiana in that list because whilst she was a strong character at first, throughout the whole film the characters tell her to stop fighting for her dream and find a man. She ends up getting both the man and the restaurant, but only because of the wealth of the man.
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Hal.E.Lujah
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(Original post by Robbie242)
Why does it matter? :lol:
(Original post by CJG21)
It's a cartoon. Stop overthinking things.

:facepalm:



(Original post by kingzebra)
I've been thinking about it, Ursula's quite an empowering character but she's also quite the anti-feminist archetype.

I'd say its messages, like most Disney films, are pretty anti feminist. I mean if you want to sum the story up in a more brutally honest way:

- Young girl has daddy issues
- Young girl trusts in an older woman
- Young girl gives up her voice
- Young girl lives happily ever after


I mean practically the entire basic narrative thrust of the film is that you don't need a voice to make someone fall in love with you. Then portraying any females who have gained hidden knowledge as the villain (which isn't exactly that odd, it's kinda traditional) pretty much cements it as anti feminist.


I wrote an essay on Disney film messages, and I came to the eventual conclusion that these aren't reactionary - that is to say Disney aren't going "lets put these feminists back in their place". Their princess series of films is just a tessera of the residual and dominant cultures, resisting emergent cinematography.


(Original post by redferry)
She gives up her life for bloke, not exactly feminist! Mulan was better for us go-getting women inm my opinion.

Don't get me wrong - I love Mulan. But I always found it massively at odds with the character development that at the end of the day she just marries anyway. In alot of ways, that ensures that the story is Mulan going on a big journey to learn her place as a wifey, rather than if the story had ended with her being named a hero.

It's not done with exactly sinister intent - the romantic interest is just to cater to Hollywood norms. But still :lol:

[Random Rant about it here that looked fairly incisive]
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redferry
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(Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
:facepalm:






I'd say its messages, like most Disney films, are pretty anti feminist. I mean if you want to sum the story up in a more brutally honest way:

- Young girl has daddy issues
- Young girl trusts in an older woman
- Young girl gives up her voice
- Young girl lives happily ever after


I mean practically the entire basic narrative thrust of the film is that you don't need a voice to make someone fall in love with you. Then portraying any females who have gained hidden knowledge as the villain (which isn't exactly that odd, it's kinda traditional) pretty much cements it as anti feminist.


I wrote an essay on Disney film messages, and I came to the eventual conclusion that these aren't reactionary - that is to say Disney aren't going "lets put these feminists back in their place". Their princess series of films is just a tessera of the residual and dominant cultures, resisting emergent cinematography.





Don't get me wrong - I love Mulan. But I always found it massively at odds with the character development that at the end of the day she just marries anyway. In alot of ways, that ensures that the story is Mulan going on a big journey to learn her place as a wifey, rather than if the story had ended with her being named a hero.

It's not done with exactly sinister intent - the romantic interest is just to cater to Hollywood norms. But still :lol:

[Random Rant about it here that looked fairly incisive]
I just think she was still pretty badass, what's wrong both bagging a fitty while you're at it???
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