Richer parents should pay for state school education
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Original post by TenOfThem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25798659
In summary
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
In summary
•
Parents with combined earnings of 80k+ should pay for their children's state schooling
•
But only if they send them to "good" schools
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
•
They already pay more as they are taxed more
•
If they are forced to pay extra then why would they keep thier children in state schools
•
How does this improve other school (that is the suggestion)
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
Given that the average state school only spends around ~£8k per pupil per year i think his amount is far too high and his credentials clearly indicate that he wants to provide an incentive for private education provision for these people.
Personally i'm not actually against this idea. Providing the money saved from charging these fees or not providing for the pupil at all (because they'd gone private) was used to lower taxes somewhat (since they are being penalised for their wealth) then i'd probably support it. In addition this line of thinking should be used in health and welfare where aside from major operations the rich should be expected to cover themselves.
The most important thing to me is that poor students are granted an educational voucher system to also allow them access to private education.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by imtelling
if you earned that sort of money have no idea why you would want to send your children to state education anyway.
My parents earned that kind of money until one of them retired and both my brother and I went to normal state school. I wouldn't have even considered going to private school (although my brother did).
In some hypothetical situation in the future where I had kids and a lot of money, they'd go to state school. It's very possible for kids to do well in state school if they apply themselves and actually work hard.
(edited 10 years ago)
Totally disagree with the premise of this argument. Every young person in the UK has a right to state education and whether their parents earn twenty or two hundred thousand a year this fact remains.
Some rich families choose to send their children to private schools hoping that it improves their prospects and gives them extra support from 'better' teachers. The question is, however, if richer parents paid for so called 'top' state schools would their children receive the same level of treatment as they would in private education? I highly doubt it.
I also think this article does not take into consideration the fact that many of the top states schools are so called 'good' because they are in wealthier areas and therefore naturally attract wealthy parents.
There is generally a misconception that rich schools are good, but in many cases it may simply come down to the high standard of pupils as opposed to quality of teaching.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Some rich families choose to send their children to private schools hoping that it improves their prospects and gives them extra support from 'better' teachers. The question is, however, if richer parents paid for so called 'top' state schools would their children receive the same level of treatment as they would in private education? I highly doubt it.
I also think this article does not take into consideration the fact that many of the top states schools are so called 'good' because they are in wealthier areas and therefore naturally attract wealthy parents.
There is generally a misconception that rich schools are good, but in many cases it may simply come down to the high standard of pupils as opposed to quality of teaching.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by TenOfThem
Some state schools are very poor, there are some serious discipline issues
That is not the case in many schools
I would suggest that the only differences between my classroom and a private school class are
That is not the case in many schools
I would suggest that the only differences between my classroom and a private school class are
•
Number of students in the class
•
Some of my groups have very low ability
yes, those 2 things are certainly much better in private. but the atmosphere and culture is also far superior in private schools. the code of conduct the students are expected to adhere too is far more disciplined. students are simply not allowed to slack off and get away with poor performance like they are in state school. their is also sense of history and heritage in private schools which does not exist in state schools.
also, the actual physical environment is also lot better in private schools. many state schools look like giant prisons.
in whole experience of being educated in private school is simply better. its the difference between flying economy class verses business class.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by imtelling
if you earned that sort of money have no idea why you would want to send your children to state education anyway.
There are a few reasons that I can think of:
1. I was raised in a working class family, if I end up earning £100k by the age of 40, I wouldn't necessarily send my kids to Private Education because I believe that if I succeeded in state schools, then why can't my kids do it?
2. Some parents might not want their kids to make friends with snobby, spoilt children (not all of them, but some are).
3. Parents might not like the strict professionalism of the private school? Parents would like to think that their kids are sent there to have fun and make friends whilst studying. They would want their kids to socialise with grounded, down to earth, kids. (I don't actually know how private schools are run, I don't even know if it's super strict, or just like any other state school, I'm just guessing).
If I have the money, I'd definitely be sending my kids to a private school.
One with a good arts and sports programme.
One with a good arts and sports programme.
Original post by Vorsah
For me the bottom line is if you have the money you should send your kid to a private school.
For me the bottom line is if you have the money you should send your kid to a private school.
You do understand that there are some very good state schools and some very poor private schools
You do understand that different children have different educational/social/emotional needs
You do understand that Private is not always best
Original post by imtelling
yes, those 2 things are certainly much better in private. but the atmosphere and culture is also far superior in private schools. the code of conduct the students are expected to adhere too is far more disciplined. students are simply not allowed to slack off and get away with poor performance like they are in state school. their is also sense of history and heritage in private schools which does not exist in state schools.
also, the actual physical environment is also lot better in private schools. many state schools look like giant prisons.
in whole experience of being educated in private school is simply better. its the difference between flying economy class verses business class.
also, the actual physical environment is also lot better in private schools. many state schools look like giant prisons.
in whole experience of being educated in private school is simply better. its the difference between flying economy class verses business class.
Your views are extremely general
I have taught is "state of the art" state schools
I have taught in schools with extremely high standards
I have also taught in poverty stricken areas where schools struggle to provide more than a social worker approach
There is massive variety
I would not have dreamt of sending my son to the local boy's private school where the buildings/resources are poor and where they employ some very poor teachers
Original post by TenOfThem
You do understand that there are some very good state schools and some very poor private schools
You do understand that different children have different educational/social/emotional needs
You do understand that Private is not always best
You do understand that different children have different educational/social/emotional needs
You do understand that Private is not always best
Some of the best state schools are virtually private schools in the sense that middle class parents sometimes buy property to get into the catchment zones of some of these schools but I do agree with the fact that there are some awesome state schools.
My opinion is that a measure like this would push a lot of wealthier parents into opting into the private sector for their child's education.
Original post by TenOfThem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25798659
In summary
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
In summary
•
Parents with combined earnings of 80k+ should pay for their children's state schooling
•
But only if they send them to "good" schools
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
•
They already pay more as they are taxed more
•
If they are forced to pay extra then why would they keep thier children in state schools
•
How does this improve other school (that is the suggestion)
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
WTF? No. Rich people pay their taxes too
Original post by Galileo Galilei
Some of the best state schools are virtually private schools in the sense that middle class parents sometimes buy property to get into the catchment zones of some of these schools but I do agree with the fact that there are some awesome state schools.
That can be very true
Though I have taught in schools where discipline and high expectations have helped to overcome the catchment
Original post by imtelling
if you earned that sort of money have no idea why you would want to send your children to state education anyway.
People's perspectives on state vs public schooling inevitably depends on where they went. I went to a state school and, provided there was a state school with a good reputation in the area (like mine), I would never send my children to public school. I don't feel in the slightest bit disadvantaged by having attended a state school. If you don't put the effort in, you won't get better results in a public school than the worst East London comprehensive.
(edited 10 years ago)
Haha, just read the article. Not surprised it is Dr Seldon saying this, he is an interesting fellow to say the least.
Original post by imtelling
if you earned that sort of money have no idea why you would want to send your children to state education anyway.
£80,000 for an individual might be a lot of money, but for two people that's not necessarily enough to send your kids to a private school
Original post by contradicta
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25798659
Personally, I see the problem but I don't think this is the correct solution. As well as the fact that if your on 100k and have 1 child you could afford 20k fees but if you had 3 children? It's just not practical. Education should be free to all regardless of what you have or don't have.
What do you think?
Edit: just seen the same thread in news and current affairs - sorry
Personally, I see the problem but I don't think this is the correct solution. As well as the fact that if your on 100k and have 1 child you could afford 20k fees but if you had 3 children? It's just not practical. Education should be free to all regardless of what you have or don't have.
What do you think?
Edit: just seen the same thread in news and current affairs - sorry
One thing I've always criticised the West for, and I honestly thought that my criticism was dying after the gov't "green" initiatives etc... is that the way in which we do politics is far too short sighted
We shouldn't be focusing on "This will save us x money" because yes it would do for around 4/5 years, but in the long run, you'd just see the country start declining, because people won't go to a good school, or good schools will intentionally become worse to attract parents, or people will be put off from wanting to earn a high wage. I know in a hypothetical example - I earn 38K, my spouse earns 38K, I'd refuse a salary increase of £4000, because it'd mean that I'd then have to pay a further £20,000 on education
State schools are not the problem. Stupid children with stupid parents are the problem.
No, for two reasons.
First, richer parents already pay for state schools, whether they send their children to them or not.
Second, it undermines the principle of universality.
First, richer parents already pay for state schools, whether they send their children to them or not.
Second, it undermines the principle of universality.
Original post by TenOfThem
You do understand that there are some very good state schools and some very poor private schools
You do understand that different children have different educational/social/emotional needs
You do understand that Private is not always best
You do understand that different children have different educational/social/emotional needs
You do understand that Private is not always best
I haven't heard of any poor private schools. I know some grammar schools that are really good but I wouldn't say they are better than the private schools in my area.
There might be some privates schools that are poor compared to state, but I would guess this figure to be very small.
All the private schools in the area I live in, have a better reputation, better behaved kids and better facilities than the state schools in my area. If I can afford to send my kid to a private school I would, as I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far.
In what what case would you say private is not always the best?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by TenOfThem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25798659
In summary
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
In summary
•
Parents with combined earnings of 80k+ should pay for their children's state schooling
•
But only if they send them to "good" schools
Interested in views, my thoughts would be
•
They already pay more as they are taxed more
•
If they are forced to pay extra then why would they keep thier children in state schools
•
How does this improve other school (that is the suggestion)
The proposer seems to think that "good" schools are only "good" because they have money which is nonsense
Well that is just damn right retarded.
As you say, these people have already paid a ton of tax, so why should they pay for the most basic right to someone in the West?
The govt should either up high income tax or this idiotic notion should be kept locked away where it belongs.
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