Do you think my friend deserves to get a 1.1.?

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Davebya
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Hi guys. I'm a 21 year old male, in the final year of my bachelor. The course I do is very similar to Social Science, and we basically design our own course by picking our own modules each year. We are given 3 full weeks to test out different modules, and then after three weeks the deadline is closed. It is clearly stated that even late admission fees are not accepted after the third week. It's a fair enough deal, three whole weeks to choose what you want. I started my final year in October and we all made our final decisions before the end of the third week, in regards to which modules we were doing. I have been getting on ok with my modules, and I should get a first (a 1.1., which is the highest grade you can get in my University).

I know this guy in my class, I'm friends with him and that. He picked his modules by the end of third week as well. He was getting on ok in his work and was doing well. However, he managed his time really badly with one of his modules. He had his first paper due for it half way through the semester, but managed his time badly and didn't get down to it till the night it was due. He then couldn't do it, and didn't submit it. He said to me the next day ''I know we can't change modules, but it might be possible to drop modules and take one up next semester instead'' (there are two semesters per year in my university). He went into the registry the next day and they said that dropping modules and changing modules is the same thing, and that the deadline is closed. He was like 'ok', but then the registry woman gave him a form and told him that if he gets it signed by his year head, he can change.

The form he is given is only supposed to be applicable for students who haven't been able to complete a module due to circumstances out of their control which hold them back. For him, there was no such circumstances. He merely managed his time badly. However, he got the form signed by the year head and therefore was allowed to change the module. He is now taking up a module next semester which is 10 times easier . There isn't half as much workload involved as there was in the module he was doing initially, and the professor for the new module he's doing is supposed to be a nice marker of assignments.

He is doing really well with his work now, and is starting his dissertation soon. His work is really good ,his grades have been good so far, and he probably will get a 1.1. I'm doing well with my work as well, and could also get a 1.1. I'm not jealous of my friend at all, he's a top guy who I have a lot of time for. But I was just thinking of the fact that he did drop a module when he wasn't supposed to be allowed, unless it was due to circumstances out of his control, which wasn't the case.

So by logic, do you think my friend deserves to get the 1.1., seeing as he was allowed to drop the module when he wasn't supposed to be, and is now taking on a module which is a lot easier?
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Fission_Mailed
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As far as I'm concerned, if you can play the system and win, without screwing over any other students or cheating, then fair play to you. Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to do it, but that isn't his problem and if the quality of his work is first class then he deserves a first.





I have watched both The Wolf of Wall Street and Wall Street in the past couple of days, so my moral compass may be a tiny bit skewed right now. Or maybe 4 years at uni has just left me a bit jaded.
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Ronove
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Presumably he has to do this new unit while also doing the second semester unit that would have taken over from the first one, ie he's still going to be experiencing a bigger workload than you anyway? It's pretty sketchy, but if he can pull it off, I'm tempted to say 'who cares'.

And neither of you is getting a 1.1, since no such thing exists.
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King Leonidas
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Fair play to him, if he's not hurting anyone then what's the problem? Also when is the dissertation in, a little late to be starting now is it not?
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Davebya
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No, the way it works in my UNI is that we submit a proposal and then do it over the next 4 months. (i.e. between now and May)
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Davebya
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(Original post by King Leonidas)
Fair play to him, if he's not hurting anyone then what's the problem? Also when is the dissertation in, a little late to be starting now is it not?


Hmmm as a conscious choice on his behalf though, was it the right thing to do? Even if he's not hurting anyone directly and the UNI are letting him do it, should he still have accepted that he messed up? There was 2 more papers left for that class, he definitely would have still passed or maybe have got a 2 grade instead Should he have just stuck with the module and accepted he will have to make do with a 2 instead of a 1?
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Davebya
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(Original post by Fission_Mailed)
As far as I'm concerned, if you can play the system and win, without screwing over any other students or cheating, then fair play to you. Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to do it, but that isn't his problem and if the quality of his work is first class then he deserves a first.





I have watched both The Wolf of Wall Street and Wall Street in the past couple of days, so my moral compass may be a tiny bit skewed right now. Or maybe 4 years at uni has just left me a bit jaded.

Hmmm as a conscious choice on his behalf though, was it the right thing to do? Even if he's not hurting anyone directly and the UNI are letting him do it, should he still have accepted that he messed up? There was 2 more papers left for that class, he definitely would have still passed or maybe have got a 2 grade instead. Should he have just stuck with the module and accepted he will have to make do with a 2 instead of a 1?
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KICHMYARSE
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yes. be prepared man, you will see these tactics throughout your life.
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King Leonidas
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(Original post by Davebya)
He's not hurting anyone, but is he not kind of getting a free pass that he shouldn't be...
I could understand your frustration if it affected you or other students however, your friend has 'beat the system' and benefited from it (well benefited with a second chance, his workload this semester will be crazy considering he has a disseration to do as well). I would not consider it a free pass though, he still has to redo the work but his grade will not be capped.
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Davebya
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(Original post by King Leonidas)
I could understand your frustration if it affected you or other students however, your friend has 'beat the system' and benefited from it (well benefited with a second chance, his workload this semester will be crazy considering he has a disseration to do as well). I would not consider it a free pass though, he still has to redo the work but his grade will not be capped.
I re-edited my comment. Read it again.
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Davebya
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(Original post by KICHMYARSE)
yes. be prepared man, you will see these tactics throughout your life.
What do you mean.
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dkdeath
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Who cares ? In the end of the day you need a specific amount of courses to graduate, he will still need to average out a first over the courses he took, so it's not a free pass(He wasted the time of a module and had more workload to catch up).

At Imperial computing , we choose courses which we receive credit for in February, including first term courses which we took exams for. So if you want in the first term you can attend 9 courses and not count any of them in your results. This is not high school, it's university, your main purpose is to learn there so stuff like this shouldn't really matter.
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KICHMYARSE
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(Original post by Davebya)
What do you mean.
you dont ask you dont get. the man in the story went out his way to get what he wanted. whether that was ethical or not is a different issue. but he hasnt done anything wrong.
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Fission_Mailed
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(Original post by Davebya)
Hmmm as a conscious choice on his behalf though, was it the right thing to do? Even if he's not hurting anyone directly and the UNI are letting him do it, should he still have accepted that he messed up? There was 2 more papers left for that class, he definitely would have still passed or maybe have got a 2 grade instead. Should he have just stuck with the module and accepted he will have to make do with a 2 instead of a 1?
I'm not sure what I can really add to my previous comment. I'm certainly not going to criticise another student for playing the game, or suggest that he makes a noble sacrifice of his first in order to appease somebody else's moral sensibilities. He's not cheating, he's not screwed over any of his peers, and he still has to do the full complement of modules. All this guy has done, from how you've described it, is make a **** up and jump on a loop hole that mitigates against its impact.

Now, if he lied to the head of year to get that form signed it would be an entirely different matter, but you've given no indication that this was the case. If the bigwigs are satisfied then everything is above board.
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Davebya
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[QUOTE=dkdeath;46117812]Who cares ? In the end of the day you need a specific amount of courses to graduate, he will still need to average out a first over the courses he took, so it's not a free pass(He wasted the time of a module and had more workload to catch up).

Yes BUT there is very little work involved in the new module that he is doing.
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dkdeath
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(Original post by Davebya)
Yes BUT there is very little work involved in the new module that he is doing.
Your point ? some courses have higher workload, some don't. You could have chosen that module as well. It is up to the uni and lectures in deciding the workload.

You are at university, things like this shouldn't matter It's a waste of thought and time, try and achieve the best you can, and stop worrying about others.
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Davebya
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(Original post by KICHMYARSE)
you dont ask you dont get. the man in the story went out his way to get what he wanted. whether that was ethical or not is a different issue. but he hasnt done anything wrong.

Hmmm let's discuss it from an ethical perspective so... Was his decision to play the system ethical?
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Davebya
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(Original post by dkdeath)
Your point ? some courses have higher workload, some don't. You could have chosen that module as well. It is up to the uni and lectures in deciding the workload.

You are at university, things like this shouldn't matter It's a waste of thought and time, try and achieve the best you can, and stop worrying about others.

Yes but my point is essentially this - From an ethical perspective, should he have dropped the module to get his 1.1., despite not having any valid reason to (in terms of UNI rules)?
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Ronove
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(Original post by Davebya)
Yes but my point is essentially this - From an ethical perspective, should he have dropped the module to get his 1.1., despite not having any valid reason to (in terms of UNI rules)?
Please stop referring to it as a 1.1., my head is about to explode.
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Davebya
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(Original post by Ronove)
Please stop referring to it as a 1.1., my head is about to explode.
Ok then... He changed it because he is aiming for a 1st...... With this knowledge on board, was it an unethical decision on his behalf, seeing as he changed it without a valid reason? And does he deserve to get a 1st?
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