Is there a rape culture at University? Watch

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desdemonata
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#41
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#41
(Original post by L i b)
Quite. I'd find rape is one of the subjects people are most cautious about making a joke of. Far more so than murder, or even genocide. Eddie Izzard made some fantastic jokes about genocide. I don't see many comedians releasing DVDs with rape jokes.
Probably because the people that have been murdered are dead whereas you never know if there's a rape victim in your audience, and statistically, there most likely is someone who has been a victim of sexual assault of some kind.
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tengentoppa
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#42
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(Original post by L i b)
Quite. I'd find rape is one of the subjects people are most cautious about making a joke of. Far more so than murder, or even genocide. Eddie Izzard made some fantastic jokes about genocide. I don't see many comedians releasing DVDs with rape jokes.
The only comedian I've ever seen make a rape joke was Reginald D. Hunter. He was very careful about it but you could feel the tension in the room spike when he brought up the subject.

It's odd really. Murder is a more heinous crime yet jokes relating to that are commonplace.
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Tyrion_Lannister
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#43
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(Original post by Monkey.Man)
I don't know where you live but I've seen absolutely no genuinely sexist behaviour emerging from the "LAD culture". if anything it's nothing more than a troll movement, nothing but an obvious giggle. besides, women are sexist all the time for laughs; I remember I had an over-the-top form room teacher who'd always seem to take any chance she'd get to crack a joke about boys being "typical" and unreliable to do anything each time she picked them to get her something, and the girls always laughed along with it - would you call that misandrist or would you call that joking? because this LAD stuff is really just a uniform "joke culture"; women find it annoying sometimes, but that's what trolling is all about; it's not serious, it's only there to wind you up

this "lad" stuff really is nothing new, it's "boys acting like boys for the sake of acting like boys"
That's in your experience, I've had plenty of other experiences. The thing is people don't realise they're doing anything wrong. They think groping a girl is okay, or shouting lewd remarks is fine, or that getting someone drunk in orer to have sex with them is a good plan. And that's because it's embedded in them

Sexism against men isn't okay either, just because some women are sexist to men you think that means it's okay for men to be sexist?
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xDave-
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#44
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I always have to laugh when I read "rape culture", what a moronic thing to say.

(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
Yes but LAD culture is "rape eqsue" in my opinion.
Lmao.
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desdemonata
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#45
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
The only comedian I've ever seen make a rape joke was Reginald D. Hunter. He was very careful about it but you could feel the tension in the room spike when he brought up the subject.

It's odd really. Murder is a more heinous crime yet jokes relating to that are commonplace.
Repped. Just for that
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james22
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#46
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(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
It doesn't seem ironic. There are people who occasionally do it ironically, which is fine, but a lot of them for one seem to stupid to do it ironically, plus they seem to be very into it. It's not just offending women, it's offensive to pretty much everyone. LAD culture is basically just another word for being an obnoxious prick..
You keep attacking "LAD culture", but remember that this only exists because lots of women like me like that.
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Tyrion_Lannister
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#47
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(Original post by L i b)
If that's true, then the majority of the British population are socially deficient. As I've said, alcohol is a social lubricant and is responsible for a great deal of the social interaction in our society, which is otherwise quite reserved.

I'm rather unsurprised that you're attacking normal social drinking now. There's an unfortunate new prudishness in all this: that people getting drunk and having sex are doing something outrageously wrong and there must be abuse in it; that songs with explicit lyrics are somehow encouraging rapists; that dirty jokes are 'rapey'; that pornography is somehow exploitative and turns people into perverts.

It's neo-Victorian moralising, not anything to do with actually reducing the incidence of rape.
I would argue that they are.

I'm not attacking social drinking, I'm attacking getting someone drunk in order to have sex with them. I don't know where you've got that from, I also have no problem with casual sex and porn, so stop over dramatising it.
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L i b
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#48
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(Original post by DaveSmith99)
So this woman knows one woman who has been raped and another who has had her drink spiked (doesn't even say it was by a student), and this means there's a rape culture at university?

I have never come across anything to suggest there is a rape culture at university, I know no one else who has. This scaremongering does no one any good.
Indeed, universities have thousands of students. Unfortunately, some of them are going to be nasty *******s and commit crimes: that's just a statistical probability. That two unreported rapes happen in a medium-sized town doesn't mean that it suddenly gets a reputation as being some sort of rapists' hotspot.

If anything, I think universities are probably far safer communities than most.
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tengentoppa
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#49
(Original post by desdemonata)
Repped. Just for that
Do love that guy.
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Tyrion_Lannister
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#50
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(Original post by james22)
You keep attacking "LAD culture", but remember that this only exists because lots of women like me like that.
And lots of women don't. If you act in a specific way in order to get girls, you're a bit daft
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Lord Jon
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#51
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Attitudes towards women are disgusting in our institutions

Posted from TSR Mobile
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StretfordEnd
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
No but planning to get someone drunk with the intent it will be easier to **** them is really rapey
You know what I think is really rapey? Rape. Declaring that planning to get someone drunk with the intent of sex in your hypothetical scenario is the following:

1) Massively insulting to an entire subset of people (likely women). They are adults but you are not crediting them with the foresight or intelligence to know they're being taken advantage of
2) Hugely assumptive. People buy each other drinks on a date for many reasons. They like to drink. It's a social transaction. It loosens you up and makes you more confident. It's generally seen as a mature, sophisticated thing to do; I wouldn't be impressed if someone got me a capri-sun on the first date, I can tell you
3) It desensitises people to rape. When you claim a man drinking with a women is a precursor to sex is rapey, you are trivialising rape. It's shocking.

Fair enough, if there is a situation where a predatory male is staying sober/plying a woman with booze to a point in which they cannot offer consent (ie they pass out) and has sex with them, then fair enough that constitutes rape. How often do you think this would happen, though? You're taking an everyday social occurrence, following it to the worst possible conclusion and extrapolating it to assume it's the norm. It's not; not even close.

Apologies for being anecdotal, but I worked in 'party resorts' for 3 years where the sole intention for a pretty significant percentage of tourists of both sexes were to be the most tanned, the most drunk, and the most sexed-up for a week. In that time, I was generally dealing with around 400-1000 guests across the 4 hotels I worked with and we liaised with customers on everything from day trips, bar crawls, room issues to police reports and other v. serious stuff. Along with that, I was physically managing those bar crawls and other alcohol-centric events around 6 times a week over that entire period.

In that time, I can only recall about 2 dozen instances in which we deliberately intervened in situations we noticed developing (we literally had training to spot these kind of things as they were happening) and probably another 8 instances (that I recall) in which my guests reported sexual assault/rape that happened as a directly result of their drunkenness. Now, I know there are always many, many more who don't come forward but the simple fact is that this problem you does not exist in the extent you perceive it to by a long, long way.
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L i b
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#53
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(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
I would argue that they are.

I'm not attacking social drinking, I'm attacking getting someone drunk in order to have sex with them.
Firstly, short of pushing a hose down their neck, you can't 'get someone drunk'. You can encourage it, sure, but it is a personal choice. Waiting until someone's is a bit tipsy before putting the moves on them is not remotely wrong: people become more flirtatious, clearer about their intentions and all that. People, generally, socialise better.

Most couples I know got together under the influence of a bit of booze. There's nothing remotely wrong with it.
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L i b
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
And lots of women don't. If you act in a specific way in order to get girls, you're a bit daft
I'll remember not to bother getting dressed up and putting on aftershave next time I'm out on the pull then.
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Monkey.Man
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
That's in your experience, I've had plenty of other experiences. The thing is people don't realise they're doing anything wrong. They think groping a girl is okay, or shouting lewd remarks is fine, or that getting someone drunk in orer to have sex with them is a good plan. And that's because it's embedded in them

Sexism against men isn't okay either, just because some women are sexist to men you think that means it's okay for men to be sexist?
yes it is in my experience; you have your experience, I have mine, I guess we've got ourselves a standstill in terms of anecdotes...and what do you mean? you think it's genuinely sexist to the point where it makes girls upset? I personally think that this whole LAD thing emerged from the culture of naggy feminists, women like harriet harman and all these other short haired munters. if we didn't have this political emphasis on women and satisfying all women's needs opposed to mens' then you'd not need the LADs movement to point and laugh at this joke of a culture that the feminists have created. and I'm not exaggerating, an I wish I was, because I'm the sort of person who isn't a conservative who thinks women "should know their place", I consider women to be nothing more than people, just like men are, there's no barriers between a man and a woman's ability that isn't superficial or culturally-induced. men and women should be treated equally because they *are* equal, and just because women don't work as much as men based on their tendency to spend more time at home raising children, for example, shouldn't suggest that men "get a pound for every 77p a woman makes" and all that other nonsense that they genuinely used to teach in my school. I find feminism in general to condescend to women, and the fact that you're suggesting that women are *seriously* having their feelings hurt by the "LAD" culture is really just making me picture women to be cowardly people who can't take jokes. if women *can* take jokes, why would you be saying all this about it if it's clearly not raised to cause outrage or offence? it's done with the presumption that women aren't spineless and wobbly and are just as serious/tough (mentally) as men are, so there you go
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Tyrion_Lannister
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#56
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(Original post by StretfordEnd)
You know what I think is really rapey? Rape. Declaring that planning to get someone drunk with the intent of sex in your hypothetical scenario is the following:

1) Massively insulting to an entire subset of people (likely women). They are adults but you are not crediting them with the foresight or intelligence to know they're being taken advantage of
2) Hugely assumptive. People buy each other drinks on a date for many reasons. They like to drink. It's a social transaction. It loosens you up and makes you more confident. It's generally seen as a mature, sophisticated thing to do; I wouldn't be impressed if someone got me a capri-sun on the first date, I can tell you
3) It desensitises people to rape. When you claim a man drinking with a women is a precursor to sex is rapey, you are trivialising rape. It's shocking.

Fair enough, if there is a situation where a predatory male is staying sober/plying a woman with booze to a point in which they cannot offer consent (ie they pass out) and has sex with them, then fair enough that constitutes rape. How often do you think this would happen, though? You're taking an everyday social occurrence, following it to the worst possible conclusion and extrapolating it to assume it's the norm. It's not; not even close.

Apologies for being anecdotal, but I worked in 'party resorts' for 3 years where the sole intention for a pretty significant percentage of tourists of both sexes were to be the most tanned, the most drunk, and the most sexed-up for a week. In that time, I was generally dealing with around 400-1000 guests across the 4 hotels I worked with and we liaised with customers on everything from day trips, bar crawls, room issues to police reports and other v. serious stuff. Along with that, I was physically managing those bar crawls and other alcohol-centric events around 6 times a week over that entire period.

In that time, I can only recall about 2 dozen instances in which we deliberately intervened in situations we noticed developing (we literally had training to spot these kind of things as they were happening) and probably another 8 instances (that I recall) in which my guests reported sexual assault/rape that happened as a directly result of their drunkenness. Now, I know there are always many, many more who don't come forward but the simple fact is that this problem you does not exist in the extent you perceive it to by a long, long way.
1) It's not always obvious, I'm not insulting anyone, I'm not saying they won't spot it, even if they do spot it, the IDEA or PLAN is still wrong
2) Nothing wrong with buying someone a drink. Trying to get them drunk is something else
3) I'm not claiming a man drinking with a woman is precursor to rape. I'm claiming someone, male or female, planning to get someone else drunk in order to take advantage of them is wrong

I'm not saying it's the norm! I'm saying people at university don't think there's anything wrong with it, which is bad

(Original post by L i b)
Firstly, short of pushing a hose down their neck, you can't 'get someone drunk'. You can encourage it, sure, but it is a personal choice. Waiting until someone's is a bit tipsy before putting the moves on them is not remotely wrong: people become more flirtatious, clearer about their intentions and all that. People, generally, socialise better.

Most couples I know got together under the influence of a bit of booze. There's nothing remotely wrong with it.
Oh ffs. You can encourage and manipulate people. Tipsy, no. Although it's still a bit dodgy. Drunk? Yes.
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Tyrion_Lannister
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#57
(Original post by L i b)
I'll remember not to bother getting dressed up and putting on aftershave next time I'm out on the pull then.
If you do that for girls and not because you like it, you're a bit daft, I stand by it
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Hopple
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Of course your first term at university is going to be a shock. Being in an over 18s club is going to be different from the parties you had at your friends' houses and you managed to get some alcohol. Youngsters out of their depth and wanting to try all these new things (alcohol, sex, drugs) are a tempting target for the rapists out there, for similar reasons to why student accommodation is tempting to thieves - you don't know what you're doing and don't have your parents looking after you.
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Gibber96
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
And lots of women don't. If you act in a specific way in order to get girls, you're a bit daft
I'm pretty sure that every man ever in existence has acted differently in order to get girls. Things like shaving, trying to sound smarter, trying to be funnier, going to the gym. Girls do just the same thing.

And I hate this idea that boys will "get girls drunk". Kissing a girl who is obviously quite drunk does not equate to rape. If girls get drunk and they haven't had their drink spiked, then the blame for getting drunk is solely theirs.
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geoking
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(Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
I would argue that they are.

I'm not attacking social drinking, I'm attacking getting someone drunk in order to have sex with them. I don't know where you've got that from, I also have no problem with casual sex and porn, so stop over dramatising it.
Explain. No one is forcing anyone to drink, and let's get real, if you are with a single guy who is plying drinks on you and you voluntarily are drinking them, that's your own fault if you then end up choosing to have sex with them.

Also, what's the problem with drunken sex if casual sex is okay? Casual sex reduces sex to a completely animalistic, hedonistic act, so how is that any different from drunken shagging?
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