Wales legalisation on organ donation. What do you guys think

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XingBairong
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There is a interesting new legalisation in wales which I would like to discuss with everyone and share our opinion.

Wales will become the first country in the UK where people will be presumed to have consented for their organs to be donated unless they opt out.

The whole article is here http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...donation-wales


Well, Personally, I will put this into pro and con of this new law.

Pro: 1) Donated organ can be used for organ transplant in people who need it. The organ which can’t be use for that purpose for any reason such as biological matching can be used in medical research instead. Successful medical research can give a dramatic change to the way we do medicine.

The most recent medical research associated with the use of donor bodies was the use of cells called Muller Glia from cadavers which can be specialised into photoreceptor cells. The research on mice shows that it can restore up to 50% of the visibility. If successful in humans, it would improve the quality of life of blind people massively. This also would lift the responsibilities of their carers, the government funding. The blind people may be able to lead a normal life if the research can be developed further. As you can see, donated organ can be used in medical research which has a lot of potential.

2) As the deaths will not be using their body again anyway, why let it rot or destroy it when it can benefit other people or can contribute to medical advancement which may benefit the future generation including their own siblings?

3) People who wish to donate their organ will not need to go through the hassle of registering or having to carry a card.

4) It doesn’t force everyone to donate an organ. They can opt-out. And there are many people who doesn’t mind either way, and many would not make an effort to register for organ donation in the first place.

5) People will inevitably be more aware of the organ donation scheme, its benefit and its potential. It would increase the scientific knowledge of the population.

Con:
1) people who don’t want to donate their organ have to go through the hassle of having to register their objection.

2) It goes against some religious believe. I do not know much about this, but in China, when an eunuch dies, their penis which was cut ages ago need to be attached back to their body because people believe that if they don’t, they will be reincarnate as a female dog or something along those lines. Maybe other religions have this kind of belief too. (Eunuches are abolished ages ago though). And of course, you can opt-out.

3) People may change their mind just before they die.

4) If organ can’t be used to save life, it may be used in a futile medical research.

I can't think of many cons because I'm totally for it.

Feel free to disagree with me and please share your opinions.
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Viva Emptiness
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I'm all for this. Let's face it, we won't be needing it after we die, and if it can help someone still living have a better quality of life, then I don't see the down side.
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Viva Emptiness
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(Original post by Algorithm69)
As a libertarian I've always maintained that this legislation is disgusting and an encroachment on individual rights. It is a view that is in the minority on TSR, however.
Not if you opt out it isn't.

At what point do things stop being an encroachment on individual rights? If a grave site get's full or needs relocating, is digging up a 100 year old coffin a disgusting breach of your human rights?
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Shi_le
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(Original post by XingBairong)
There is a interesting new legalisation in wales which I would like to discuss with everyone and share our opinion.

Wales will become the first country in the UK where people will be presumed to have consented for their organs to be donated unless they opt out.

The whole article is here http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...donation-wales


Well, Personally, I will put this into pro and con of this new law.

Pro: 1) Donated organ can be used for organ transplant in people who need it. The organ which can’t be use for that purpose for any reason such as biological matching can be used in medical research instead. Successful medical research can give a dramatic change to the way we do medicine.

The most recent medical research associated with the use of donor bodies was the use of cells called Muller Glia from cadavers which can be specialised into photoreceptor cells. The research on mice shows that it can restore up to 50% of the visibility. If successful in humans, it would improve the quality of life of blind people massively. This also would lift the responsibilities of their carers, the government funding. The blind people may be able to lead a normal life if the research can be developed further. As you can see, donated organ can be used in medical research which has a lot of potential.

2) As the deaths will not be using their body again anyway, why let it rot or destroy it when it can benefit other people or can contribute to medical advancement which may benefit the future generation including their own siblings?

3) People who wish to donate their organ will not need to go through the hassle of registering or having to carry a card.

4) It doesn’t force everyone to donate an organ. They can opt-out. And there are many people who doesn’t mind either way, and many would not make an effort to register for organ donation in the first place.

5) People will inevitably be more aware of the organ donation scheme, its benefit and its potential. It would increase the scientific knowledge of the population.

Con:
1) people who don’t want to donate their organ have to go through the hassle of having to register their objection.

2) It goes against some religious believe. I do not know much about this, but in China, when an eunuch dies, their penis which was cut ages ago need to be attached back to their body because people believe that if they don’t, they will be reincarnate as a female dog or something along those lines. Maybe other religions have this kind of belief too. (Eunuches are abolished ages ago though). And of course, you can opt-out.

3) People may change their mind just before they die.

4) If organ can’t be used to save life, it may be used in a futile medical research.

I can't think of many cons because I'm totally for it.

Feel free to disagree with me and please share your opinions.
As far as I am aware, the opt-out system has been in place in Switzerland for a while now with really positive results. I'm all for it.
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MJ1012
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I think it's great.
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Viva Emptiness
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(Original post by Algorithm69)
The government stating they own your organs until you specifically tell them otherwise is a pretty big encroachment on individual liberty if you ask me. There are many more ways to increase organ donors without going the way of Big Brother.
No, they'll own your organs after you die - slight difference. And your answer to my question (just out of curiosity)?
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xsindy
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I think it's only fair...
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james22
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I don't like the argument about this being bad because the government presumes ownership of your body. If you think this then you should be against the police or health services moving your body at all without your consent, against post mortems in the event of a suspicious death and against being burried without consenting to the exact location.

With presumed consent I see the advantage of more lives being saved, and teh disadvantage of people losing some post-death rights (which I don't believe we should have at all anyway). I think this is a no brainer in favour of presumed consent.
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TurboCretin
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I support this, as long as the opt-out process isn't unduly onerous.
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donutaud15
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about time. I'm all for this.

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Viva Emptiness
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(Original post by Algorithm69)
You do understand that consent is presumed while you're still alive, don't you? Do you honestly believe the State has any moral or ethical right to presume your consent on anything? This really rubs me the wrong way and, looking at the comments in that article, has rubbed many others the wrong way too. Oh but it'll save a few more lives a year. 50 I believe was the estimate. Hope it's worth it!

As for your graveyard 'analogy', it's a completely different issue that are not comparable in the slightest.
How are they not comparable? If you die today you are no more dead in 100 years time as you are tomorrow.
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username33685
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The only way to do this ethically would be to have a massive campaign where you reach every individual in the country telling them that they will now have their body harvested for organs when they die unless they have specifically said not to, and to make reasonable efforts to give everyone who wants to opt out the chance to do so. If you are going to do this, then you might as well just go the opposite route and try and encourage people to actively donate without the dubious morality surrounding the presumed consent route.

Also I don't buy the argument that "people aren't aware" or "haven't been able to express their opinion on opting in". Recently I have renewed my passport and my driving licence, and the organ donation questions were on the form (I said yes, I will donate for the record). How many people will go through their lives without getting one of these? Make it a mandatory question if you must, or put it on more official forms, have your GP ask you the question the next time you make an appointment.. anything but presumed consent, which really is a morally repugnant way of ruling.
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racheyroo
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I think it's a great idea when we're dead we don't need our organs, so if they could save a persons life, or possibly more than one person then thats an amazing thing to be able to do, the only thing i can see against it is any religious beliefs but people can opt out if it bothers them that much
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Swanbow
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Just a thought.

Couldn't a person have their organs removed and sold to willing buyer, in lets say the United States, to increase the amount of money in their estate for their dead relatives?
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Viva Emptiness
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(Original post by Swanbow)
Just a thought.

Couldn't a person have their organs removed and sold to willing buyer, in lets say the United States, to increase the amount of money in their estate for their dead relatives?
I think this might have a hand in increasing the black-market organ harvesting trade, eh?
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Studentus-anonymous
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(Original post by Algorithm69)
As a libertarian I've always maintained that this legislation is disgusting and an encroachment on individual rights. It is a view that is in the minority on TSR, however.
I don't consider myself a 'libetarian' but I agree with this.

assuming ownership of people's organs by the state thus threatening people's rights over their own bodies in general, interfering with a family's grief and mourning are concepts I simply disagree with. Even if it is for 'the greater good' of sick and dying people.

They weren't born with a guarantee to life beyond what their own bodies provide for them and so assuming people's rights to their own bodies, and the grief of relatives and friends is somehow lesser to this sudden nebulous right to live at the expense of the previously mentioned is odd.

What is next? If I may utilize the slippery slope, what stops the state from deciding that it can come along and take your blood whenever it suits them because your blood will save someone else's life?

Perhaps they can decide to force people to give up redundant organs that they don't necessarily need to live. You have two kidneys, so the Welsh assembly has determined you only need one, hand the spare over please!


It's just the wrong way to go in my opinion.

Thankfully the Welsh Assembly has no control over me and it's scheme will likely be reversed as it proves itself invasive and unpopular in time.
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DeceitfulDove
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I'm Welsh. I think it's good, as long as everyone is aware of it so they can opt out if they wish.
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Pistol 33
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Basically stealing.
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PopaPork
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Such a good idea.

This makes it an individuals personal choice rather than having to ask next of Kin etc... at a very distressing time

But me being me, I would make a opt out condition that if you do not want your organs being used then you are also unwilling to use ones belonging to someone else
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Coffinman
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It's bad because it,
presumes ownership of your organs,
stifles replacement or synthetic organ technology,
encourages letting people die to harvest organs,
uses peoples organs for research but that research probably won't be accessible by the public,
while it's claimed you can opt out, will you be treated fairly for doing so and who is keeping an eye on your insides to make sure your wishes are respected,
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