Is this stuff about Libya true?Watch this thread
for all its citizens.
2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are
state-owned and loans given
to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.
3. Home considered a human right in Libya –
Gaddafi vowed that his parents
would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a
home. Gaddafi’s father has
died while him, his wife and his mother are still living
in a tent.
4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$
50,000 ) by the government
to buy their first apartment so to help start up the
5. Education and medical treatments are free in
Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%
of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.
6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,
they would receive farming
land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and
livestock to kick- start their farms
– all for free.
7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical
facilities they need in Libya,
the government funds them to go abroad for it –
not only free but they get US
$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.
8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government
subsidized 50% of the price.
9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.
10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves
amount to $150 billion – now
11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after
graduation the state would
pay the average salary of the profession as if he or
she is employed until
employment is found.
12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to
the bank accounts of all
13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US
14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15
15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree
16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation
project, known as the Great
Man-Made River project, to make water readily
available throughout the desert
There are a lot of people defending Muammer Gaddafi and his regime by stating living conditions and infrastructure in Libya was world class, and all the people in the country enjoyed unimaginable wealth. This is not true. The Gaddafi regime was rife with corruption and deception. Who you know was more important than who you were as a person, with many basic services being only available to the highest bidders.
Below, Nizar Mhani (Niz Ben-Essa) of the Free Generation Movement responds to common misconceptions relating to the Gaddafi regime (the bolded inaccurate statements are being circulated via email forward). Follow FGMovement on Facebook, and FGMovement on Twitter.
There are no electricity bills in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.
Categorically untrue. Despite poor electricity infrastructure and poor coverage of electricity lines, even in the Capital, Libyan home owners pay monthly/quarterly (area dependant) electricity bills based on meter readings. Electricity is cut off in instances of unpaid bills. Reconnection upon payment is not instant. The electric infrastructure is weak and some areas of Libya do not have electricity available at all.
There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.
Categorically untrue. Banks all over Libya have been giving out loans for years and years. There is a percentage rate charge on all loans, which is comparable to an interest rate, but in the spirit of ‘islamic ethics’ it is not called interest, it is called an ‘Administrative Expense’ – Masareef Edareeya.
A House is considered a human right in Libya ¬ Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi¹s father has died while he, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent.
Gaddafi abused this human right as much as he did other basic rights. It is well known in Libya that political opponents and successful business men/women had their homes confiscated and handed over to regime members, usually rewards for Free Officers –Dubat A7rar. Many farms and homes and businesses were confiscated during three infamous phases of Libyas dictatorial history:
- 1969 – The dreaded Green Revolution. Free Officers were rewarded land, homes, and farms that sometimes belonged to other people and the original owners were not compensated or asked if this was ok.
- Late 70’s - The introduction of the law Albayt le Sakinehee – The Home Belongs to its Dwellers. As this law was passed overnight, thousands of homeowners instantly lost their homes, as tenants (those renting the homes) claimed ownership on account of being the ‘dwellers’. The law applied to homes, farms, shops, etc.
- 90’s - The introduction of Purification Committees (Lejnat al Tatheer). This committee ran by the widely know slogan, ‘Min ayna laka hada?’ – “From where did you obtain this?”, a form of ultra-socialism where people’s possessions, including homes and businesses, were confiscated if seen to be ‘surplus to requirement’ or contributing to a ‘monopoly’.
Regarding Gaddafis ‘vow’: While Gaddafi waited for ‘everyone in Libya’ to be housed, he himself lived in a sprawling 6km square compound in the centre of the capital which was home to state of the art security and an underground network of rooms and ultramodern bunkers. He also had a vast and well known farm on Airport Road in Tripoli. This, just in the capital.
All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$ 50,000 ) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.
This is a well known rumour and a common joke in Libya. Whilst it may have been passed as official legislation, I know of not a single family who has been given this grant. The backbreaking bureaucracy associated with such grants and loans make them more or less impossible to obtain.
Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.
Education and Health Care – Free does not mean adequate. It is well known that Libya’s standard of health care is nothing short of appalling. It is widely known that the majority of Libyans seeking medical care leave for neighbouring countries for treatment. Our Education system is no better. It is outdated, teachers are underpaid and under-trained and libraries are largely non-existent. The syllabus was constantly being revised and reviewed under direct instruction from the former regime e.g. banning English, changing Quranic verses, etc.
It is commonly said that Libyans would be happy to forfeit their ‘free health care’ and pay for a National Health Service if it was up to the required standard.
Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and Livestock to kick- start their farms all for free.
This has never happened, in addition to this many farms and homes have been confiscated by the government to build railroads, The Great Man Made River and civil roads.
The owners of the land were only compensated if there was a covered structure on the land as the Gaddafi regime legally owned any land and the people were only allowed to build on it. When there was compensation offered it was nowhere near the actual value of the property and many waited years to receive anything if at all. This system was also rife with corruption many residents told they had to pay a bribe to receive what little they were given.
If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it not only free but they get $2, 300/month accommodation and car allowance.
Categorically untrue. If this was the case, the former regime would have been in receipt of 6 million application forms – one for every man, women and child who ‘cannot find education or medical facilities they need’. This grant does not exist for the mainstream public. There is anectdotal evidence of some medical grants being given but again, the system was corrupt and opaque.
In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government pays 50% of the price. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.
There is no truth to the former Gaddafi regime paying 50% of the value of a new car.
Whilst the price of fuel is indeed cheap, the quality of roads, the accuracy and availability of road signs, the presence of road traffic police, and all other transport infrastructure is of abysmal standard.
The absence of an integrated and functional public transport system means that people are reliant on their cars for all movement and might end up paying more on fuel than our neighbours around the Mediterranean basin.
Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion now frozen globally.
Whilst our sovereign wealth is undeniable, none of it was spent on the people of Libya nor the infrastructure of the country. Basic amenities, services, and state infrastructure are either absent or of appalling standard.
The availability of money is not tantamount to wealth or prosperity. The Arabs have a saying about Libya – “A rich nation of poor inhabitants.”
If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.
Categorically untrue. Even basic wages are sometimes unpaid for months, for those lucky enough to be employed. Welfare for the unemployed is non-existent.
A portion of Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
No basis to this claim as no such case can be found.
A mother who gave birth to a child receive US $5 ,000
Categorically untrue. There is a Child Benefit welfare payment in Libya – it is roughly 15-20 Libyan Dinars a month per child. No Libyan citizen was given foreign currency as compensation.
40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15
Bread was subsidized by the state. Whilst the price varies (marginally) from shop to shop, bread usually costs ¼ dinars for 10 baguettes (small) or roughly 500grams per dinar.
25% of Libyans have a university degree
The absence of a comprehensive selection process and a corrupt entry protocol means that universities in Libya are grossly over populated and over subscribed, despite limited facilities. This results in an over inflated number of graduates, but not necessarily an adequate level of employability. There are thousands of students studying foundation year medicine in Tripoli alone.
Gaddafi carried out the world¹s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available.
The Jury is still out on this. The project has indeed supplied water to many towns and cities around Libya, but the cost is thought to be as stratastrophic as the time it took to complete this. Further, decades of an absence of appropriate licensing, monitoring and control has meant that wells were dug for every home, putting immense pressure on Libya’s natural and naturally replenishable water sources. This resulted in the increase of salinity in local water reserves, which lead to the need for an expansive project such as the Man Made River.
Wow thank you for bringing that into my attention.
Btw the Link gives a 404 error.
Is this happening for everyone?
Electricity is subsidised, so really cheap but people just steal it and don't pay their bills. So I guess it is technically free.
2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.
There are interest loans of course, only interest loans and there is nothing Islamic in banking in Libya. Add to the fact the most Libyans can't get loans from the local banks due to issues around collateral (security for loan payments) from individuals. Basically security fraud for bank loans is through the roof so banks don't give out loans, making them the most cash rich banks in the world! PS: That's not necessarily a good thing because it's idle money and money should generate money!
3. Home considered a human right in Libya – Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi’s father has died while him, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent.
Gaddafi lived in a tent...Don't think so. He had palaces and villas everywhere and the so-called Visitors tent (as seen on TV) is bomb proof and air-conditioned. Gaddafi also for security reasons needed to move around a lot. In the end , He is now in that great big tent in the sky awaiting judgement day and his mother passed away many years ago. His wife is wanted in Libya and she lives with his remaining (free) children in Oman. As for having a home as a human right, he screwed the land registry so much that nobody knows who owns what…and that takes you back to point 2 and ‘issues around collateral (security for loan payments) from individuals’. I hope you get this.
4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$ 50,000 ) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family
Libyans never received free money for housing or any other crap. Some housing loans were given out but nothing for free as a right to every citizen. These are rumours spread by well-paid cronies around the world. Must be cheaper to spread the lie than to actually do it. Also if you were lucky to get in the queue for an apartment then you would have had to kiss ass, grovel and pay backhanders.
Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.
5.aEducation is free but is useless as was planned by the Gaddafi regime. Many fine teachers who carried the country education system were fired in the 70s and 80s. All of them were foreigners Arab and non-Arab. In the end over 75,000 teachers were kicked out over an 8 year period. The result is spanking new polytechnics churning out the losers that didn't finish high school into teachers. So after 3 years in a polytechnic for teaching, you became a teacher at 18. The beginning of the end I'd say...
5.b As for the Health system, Libya is up there with the worst. Making it even worse, is the fact that it is a rich country. Hospitals are pretty much like cemeteries, if you go you must be dead. An Economist Intelligence Report, a few years ago found that Libyan University degrees were just a little better than High school degrees. That greatly contributes of course. There are still many factors that contribute to making it so bad. Bad doctors, Bad pay, Bad management, bad budgets... There really isn't one guilty party. It needs to be rebuilt from scratch. So I wouldn't recommended for health reasons!
5.c To get a proper and fair understanding of this, Libyan population is actually tiny compared to land mass and fortune. Libya became a state in 1951 after years of war and destruction. Oil was starting to be pumped out and sold by late 1950s. So by the time Gaddafi came to power in 1969 in a coup, Libyans were about 1.5 million. Governments since 1963 when Libya united into a federal kingdom spent most of their time preparing and generally building up modern society. The point is that Gaddafi came, did his coup and implemented what the King and his governments had been planning any way. All of it! He did also have some great Michael Jackson moves like being one of the first to raise the oil prices on the international market and he followed Iraq by nationalising oil companies and bringing oil production under Government control. These only happened in the 70s and as part of (or a result of) a sequence of events. There is hardly any evidence that any planning was done after Libya became a republic. In fact there was evidence of destroying, if anything. All that was implemented was already there pre-1969. So if the figure for literacy stands at 83%, it’s meaningless really, only as part of natural progression. Libyan population currently stands at about 6 million and about 2.3 million adults and a country the size of western Europe.
6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kick- start their farms – all for free.
Farming is one of the most expensive lines of work in the world and Gaddafi stopped the subsidies they used to get in the late 80s so there had been a huge decline in industrial private farming. Gaddafi also outlawed owning any large farms because they were so bourgeoisie and he was a man of the masses. They reminded him of feudalism or serfdom so he went about destroying farming even more. Also there are major issues with water mismanagement, cronies buying farms as resorts, bad planning and crappy soil that is burned with fertilizer. In many cases, Libyan veggies are often refused in European markets because they have high levels of pesticides splashed on and don't conform to any standards. Thanks Gaddafi!
7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it – not only free but they get US $2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.
Education and Medical treatment abroad. Fantastic! Well this just proves the point and shows how CRAPPY the education and health system were in the first place! It was another form of corruption as it meant money shifted outside the country to international hospitals where certain cronies have backdoor deals with the hospitals, etc...Also you had to be a crony or someone with broad shoulders to get that favour of education or medical treatment abroad or being the biggest ass licker around will do too. The money (grant to students) depended on the country, family (with or without) and the degree you were doing. No the was no car allowance. That's just BS. And of course after the 2011, with all those alleged war injured, it has been taken up to the MAX with billions being siphoned abroad. It's not individuals anymore but banks and even countries being in on the racket! Unfortunately It will continue until Libya is broke and they all beggars.
8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidized 50% of the price.
That's not true. Once cars were 'subsidised' to the extent they didn't have side-view mirrors and seat belts! Can you beat that? One amazing thing about cars in Libya, is strangely enough, the tax on imported cars was only 3% only and No importing of cars older than 5 years. This meant that everybody had a nice car! Cars are generally cheap there. On that level, Libya is the envy of many neighbouring nations.
9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.
YES petrol is dirt cheap and lead free too. It is heavily subsidised and 14 cents is about right. Cheap cars and cheap petrol...who needs more!
10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion – now frozen globally.
Yes until Gaddafi was deposed that was the case. Billions in the bank. Middle finger to the IMF and World Bank! Most of the frozen assets are shares, other stock and properties. Thanks Gaddafi for keeping that money aside...for your Imperial Pan African dreams (wink wink) while the Libyan folk lived like ****! Then after the war, it became a free4all, all-you-can-steal, bingo bonanza! It is still continuing on a grand scale because it's not that easy in fact, there's so much money still there $$$. Also to add to the misery, oil prices are down and there are 2 governments fighting it out, militias claiming to have half the population working for them guarding mole holes everywhere and general perpetual cross-country fighting and bickering and then lots of meetings in fancy hotels in resorts. I think you get the picture now.
11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.
Get a salary if you’re not employed? That's ridiculous! You didn't even get one when you were working. Any way it was pointless getting a legit job there because the jobs were mostly Gov't jobs and they sucked big time. No no no, you can't be creative, workaholic or remove any bureaucracy and the endless paperwork and stamps. You were seen as an instigator of dissent, a corrupting element to the peaceful system created by the Brother Leader and his Green Book. So keep your head down but steal when you can, and keep it real. Also by the way, most Libyans are incapable of working for foreign companies. Why? Because over the years, and being subjected to the dumbinisation from the above-mentioned crappy education, they became lazy, uneducated *******s who expected to behave like they did when they worked as civil servants. Keeping an even approach to this sensitive subject, may I add that if they worked for the Gov't then they were subjected to Law 15 an evil law, which was never amended nor was the minimum wage raised since the law came out 30 odd years ago. It was really by far the most destructive act upon the Libyan psyche. Worse then bombing or anything I can think of. It affected them socially, economically, mentally, physically. I hope history can record this for the sake of humanity. It forced Libyans into corruption of all sorts just to make some extra cash and make ends meet. Made them discard their pride for the sake of pennies. The more corrupt you were, the more money you made. Also what people have to realise, especially if you have never lived in a dictatorship that you cannot be part of the power machine without being corrupt. At any level. This is the reward but also you must be tainted to work with the power machine. It’s like joining the League of Assassins without killing anyone. It just can’t happen, only if you’re prophet. I mean like Joseph (the prophet) going into the nasty prison for 10 years or more and converting all the prisoners into God-fearing, craft-making, hard-working , saintly folk. So they joined him instead of him joining them.
12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
Libyans never got a share or their oil. What a joke! Money made from oil was a well-kept secret. Only cronies got their share and the rest got screwed. Who in their right mind would share a fortune like that. Better to spend it on grand scale dreams like King of Kings of Africa, African Union, skyscrapers in the best world capitals, continuous hosting of events, event after event, just so Gaddafi’s Libya can look great. Back to the dreams…that also meant rigging elections worldwide, revolutions, terrorist operations and lots of money spent looking like we are the …..KINGS OF THE WORLD….to low lives, thugs and corrupt leaders and their like.
13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US $5 ,000
No there was no money given to new mothers or old mothers. Mothers that gave birth in hospitals in Libya should be grateful and thankful to Allah for protecting them and keeping them alive during their hospital stay. It’s the lottery of death out there for mothers and their new born.
14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15
Bread is cheap? Price changes a bit with currency fluctuations but yes it is very, very cheap and many labourers from poor(er) countries (Africans, Arabs, Asians…legal and illegal) working in Libya think they found Shangri La because food basics are cheap and work is available (Dirty work that Libyans don’t want to do.). Flour is a subsidised product like tomato taste, olive oil, cooking oil, sugar, pasta, rice, red and green tea (Ceylon and Gunpowder may I add proudly ) and a few more essential items. These were supposed to be for the Libyan families but everybody was getting it and it was even sold in Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Chad, Niger, Sudan and many more places. Just ask for the Libya Market wherever you go. In fact, the deal was so god that recently in Tripoli they woke up and decided to do their job for a day and discovered that there were at least a hundred bakeries getting their supply of subsidised flour to sell in their non-existent bakeries. This was going on for years. Hello? Anyone there?
15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree
Again I say the Libyan population currently stands at about 6 million and 60% are under 21 i.e. children. Higher education as I said before is not much better than secondary education so not a big deal. Nothing to boast about. It’s not one person’s fault, it’s a collective.
16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert
So true!!! Libyans are the only nation in the world that drinks natural mineral water that has gone through a filtering process of several thousand years. It’s amazing. Most of the population in Libya lives on coastal cities where a disaster was in the process due to bad planning. Water turned salty everywhere about 30 years and Libyans dug (artesian) wells everywhere and depleted the aquifers and of course in many cases salty water creeped in from the sea to replace the sweet water. It seems that the same thing was happening with the government wells as I said it was salty water all around for years. While oil companies were searching for oil in Libya, they kept hitting areas where nothing came out but water. This was in the many parts of the south of Libya, in Kufra, Sarir, Tazerbo, Ashweyrif, Jabal Hasouna and lots of other places. Basically Libya is sitting on a large basin called the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System (NSAS). It’s “the world’s largest known fossil water aquifer system” according to Wikipedia. Libya shares this with Sudan, Chad and Egypt. Other known unknowns include that it is rechargeable so cannot be depleted. It could be an overflow from the Nile River. Tropical Africa is higher than Arid North Africa so naturally water trickles down towards the world’s biggest underground bathtub.
Finally it is fair to say that this the 3rd largest country in Africa, with a land mass of 1.75 million km2. With rolling, golden sand dunes and 2,100 km coast of beaches and an all-you-can-fish coastline, dotted with unique antiquities, here and there, in the form of cities, not just a ceremonial arch or a wall. Be it Phoenician, Roman, or Greek. Wait! There’s more! Stone Age cave art, Garamantes (an ancient Libyan civilisation) and many other indigenous Libyan cultures have left their mark on history in Libya. Also Islamic, Arab, Turkish, Spanish, Vandals, and many more passed through, some for a short while and some for hundreds of years, making the country rich even in its history too. It is true to say this country with a small population and proven oil reserves of 112 years of oil, trillions of cubic meters of proven gas reserves, 150,000 km3 cubed reserves of fresh water, the largest supply of water, ever in world, has got so much potential but they are squandering all of this with their own hands. Sad but true.