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Cambridge vs University of Toronto

I got a conditional offer from Cambridge to study engineering, and also got an offer from University of Toronto. Studying in Canada will give me the opportunity to apply for Citizenship and potentially get a job with no restriction since I'm a landed immigrant, while in London there is no guarantee to be hired since i don't have a British citizenship.

My questions will be as follows:
- Is it possible to convert my Tier 4 study visa to a Tier 1 or 2?
- Does British organizations hire international graduates?
- How employers perceive graduates from Cambridge Vs University of Toronto?

Thanks

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Reply 1
I can't answer you first two questions, but Cambridge is definitely more reputable than Toronto. It's one of the best in the world.
Reply 2
Thnx Mike and i totally agree but it's all about priorities. Hopefully i can do well in STEP since it's conditional
Reply 3
For employment-related visa questions, you might want to have a look around here.

As for your second question: What exactly do you mean by organizations? Also, do you mean that from a legal point of view or just in general? Generally speaking, there shouldn't really be a difference between international or national graduates.

And that Cambridge sounds better in your CV than Toronto is not worth mentioning, really :smile:
Reply 4
Unless there's a legal issue with getting work in the UK, then I really don't believe that a degree from Cambridge will be ignored by UK employers.

I can't imagine, either, you not getting British citizenship if you study here for x years and you show an intention to work.

Getting a degree from Cambridge probably passes that criteria.
Reply 5
My d was received offers from both. She loved U Toronto, but chose Camb because it was her first choice (and it was also much less expensive) and she desires to settle in Europe. (She is citizen of both America and EU.)

There is no question that Camb has the better rep, but U Toronto is also excellent and will leave you better situated to find a job in Canada if that is where you want to live. However, I am sure the Camb would open doors in Canada as well, just from a distance.

You should also consider the specifics of your degree and the education you would get. In certain areas, I would bet U Toronto is just as good if not better than Camb, though the latter is guaranteed to be first rate.
Cambridge is definitely better than Toronto for getting a job in Canada, assuming that the programmes you're offered are very similar.

But I don't know about Canada, but reading at Cantab doesn't lead you into a citizenship that's for sure. If you want to stay and work, you will need to have secured a job offer before you graduate I believe so that you can stay in Britain continuously. Unless you're a PhD student that is. I believe they can stay for a year without a job. If you are a postgraduate you can also stay for several months more I recall.

Regardless, whilst Cam is better, Toronto is VERY respectable as well. It ranks Top 20 on QS world-wide ranking.
Original post by AdamskiUK
Unless there's a legal issue with getting work in the UK, then I really don't believe that a degree from Cambridge will be ignored by UK employers.

I can't imagine, either, you not getting British citizenship if you study here for x years and you show an intention to work.

Getting a degree from Cambridge probably passes that criteria.


I don't think a Cambridge degree helps that directly, but it leads you into jobs easier (and continuous employment afterwards) which is basically the most important thing for you to stay with in Britain if you are not a family member of a Briton.

If you are not marrying into Britain, I do believe you need to have a job already, instead of merely showing an intention to work (whatever that means).
Reply 8
Original post by Daffyd
In terms of reputation, UofT is just as world-renowned as Cambridge, if not more. It only happens that Cambridge is quite a bit older and people somehow associate that with "better". I've personally visited both schools and seen both facilities (but for medicine) and I can definitely say that personally, I like the way UofT operates much much more. Of course, there's a special respect held for those who can add Oxon. or Cantab. after their names, but UofT has been and continues to be one of Canada (and North America's) leading universities, sitting on top with McGill and UBC.

When it comes to employers perceiving degrees, it's rare that someone be hired just based on their alma mater. When you're looking for your first job or internship after graduation, usually you will have to supply your transcripts as well as a CV. Those and interviews will be what decide whether you get employed, not where you got your degree. That being said, you should also consider where exactly you wish to work afterwards. Canada is abundant in natural resources and Ottawa is rolling out a ton of new projects that require a lot of engineering work (such as the Keystone pipelines,the Inuvik road, etc.), so depending on the type of engineering you wish you study, that may also be something worth considering.

However, you should know that a Canadian citizen can work anywhere in Canada and relatively easily in the US. A British citizen, however, can work almost anywhere in the EU. Note, though, that it is not easy becoming a British citizen and can take up to 5 years, not including the time you spend there as a student with a Tier 4 visa, because their student visa is granted on the expectation that you will leave after graduationwhere as an immigration visa is granted on the terms that you will stay and work and contribute to British society. There are also EU laws which stipulate that certain employers must give jobs to EU citizens over non-EU people, if they offer the same qualifications. I am not sure if this will hinder your chances at finding employment there.

Lastly, you should also think about where would make you the happiest. You will be spending around four years in a place for a lot more than just studying. Cambridge is full of history and you'll be able to travel around the UK (and Europe) by hopping on a train. Toronto and the GTA is one of the most vibrant cities in the world and it is currently the economic centre of Canada. Toronto is a lot more than just a "university-city" and Canada is arguably much more advanced in terms of human rights.

Hope this helps! :smile:

I guess you're going to neither then because I don't think anyone believes that UoT is as or more world-renowned than Cambridge. There are three to five universities that could make that claim and UoT is definitely not one of them. Oxford, Harvard, Yale. MIT, Princeton. Generally speaking anyway, based on Engineering? Not my subject. And I don't think its prestige relies on its age either. There's more to it than that, plus if that were true Paris-Sorbonne would be more prestigious I believe. If I had to take a guess I'd say you're a Canadian who's a little nationalistic which is strange considering the Welsh spelling of your name.

Edit: Totally Canadian. I sense bias.
(edited 10 years ago)
I would go with Cambridge unless there are any major factors such as the course worrying you.
Reply 10
Original post by alola
I got a conditional offer from Cambridge to study engineering, and also got an offer from University of Toronto. Studying in Canada will give me the opportunity to apply for Citizenship and potentially get a job with no restriction since I'm a landed immigrant, while in London there is no guarantee to be hired since i don't have a British citizenship.

My questions will be as follows:
- Is it possible to convert my Tier 4 study visa to a Tier 1 or 2?
- Does British organizations hire international graduates?
- How employers perceive graduates from Cambridge Vs University of Toronto?

Thanks


I wouldn't assume getting a study visa in Canada gives you the right to live there, I thought the same but it's a lot harder nowadays. They will typically let you in provided you've got work experience, fluency in English + French and Canadian education under your belt. You must also be able to fulfil an in-demand job, which varies by province. Ontario is one of the hardest to move to, places like New Brunswick or Manitoba might be better. Plus I haven't heard that much good stuff about UToronto. But it's your call! :smile:

Cambridge is pretty good, I've been for a look around (even though I'm not clever enough to go there) and it's got a nice scenery.

British organisations do hire quite a few international graduates. Are you European? Because you can easily come to the UK and work here due to the free citizen movement. If you studied at Cambridge, you're likely to be recognised around the world, it may be hard for international employers to turn you down. Toronto meanwhile, couldn't get you as far.
Reply 11
Didn't even know there was a University of Toronto, let alone it being more renowned than Cambridge :laugh:
Reply 12
Original post by Daffyd
The OP said they're a landed immigrant so there're literally no restrictions to their right of abode or employment. Fluency in French is rarely is rarely required unless you plan on working in Quebec, which you shouldn't be thinking about anyways.

Also, obviously they aren't a EU citizen or else they wouldn't be asking about a Tier 4 visa. ???????????? And once again, employers RARELY hire just based on where you get your degree.

The amount of misinformation and ignorance is unbelievable.


Ok then
Where do you live at the moment, OP? Personally I'd say take the Cambridge offer if you think you can meet it. British visa restrictions might be more strict but there's no guarantee that you'd be able to get permanent residency in Canada either. On top of that, there's the fact that a Cambridge degree would probably be more appealing to employers across the world, which would probably make it easier for you to get a permanent job and residence in either country later on - even if you have to leave for a year or two and then come back once you've got employment lined up.
Reply 14
Original post by Daffyd
A lack of knowledge isn't something you'd want to be flaunting?


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You can call it a lack of knowledge or a lack of an international presence and overshadowed by McGill and York

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Reply 15
Actually I'm holding a Canadian permanent residence card, so it wont be a problem staying in Canada. It was one of my ambitious to study in one of the top 5 schools and receiving such an offer from Cambridge is a real privilege. I studied all my life in a British school in the middle east where I'm currently staying, so is it really beneficiary to gain the north American experience and study in U of Toronto with the option of getting the citizenship or go for Cambridge which by itself a citizenship?
Original post by Daffyd

It's hilarious that you all think that a Cambridge degree means anything special in North America. The truth is that people in other parts of the world just really don't care all that much. Like, yes, there's name recognition but that's about it. While I personally have the utmost respect for Cambridge and all foreign institutions, the fact remains that if you want to work anywhere in NA with a European professional degree, you'll have to take several foreign accreditation exams just to be recognised. It literally means that those degrees are considered secondary to native ones and aren't as trusted/valued....even Cambridge ones. I think it's absolutely unfair but that's just the way it is. :/



Even if you're right, and I'll defer to you since you're Canadian and I'm not, the UoT degree is only really worth doing over Cambridge if the OP particularly wants to study, work and live in Canada/North America. Outside of Canada a Cambridge degree will get you a lot further than a UoT one - regardless of your opinion the name does carry a fair amount of weight, if not as much as it does in the UK, whereas outside Canada I don't think a UoT degree is especially significant. So ultimately the answer depends on what the OP really wants - the UoT would give guaranteed citizenship but might restrict them to North America/Canada in terms of where they can get a job, whereas the Cambridge degree would not guarantee UK citizenship but would give them a better chance of getting a job (which is a big step toward citizenship) in any country that isn't Canada, thereby giving them more options.
Reply 17
Original post by Daffyd




"International presence" is correlated extremely tightly to the amount of PR work a school does. (I work for McGill and McGill does A LOT.) In the recent decade, UofT has been ranking consistently above McGill.. So basing your knowledge of international institutions on a school's PR work makes you sound even worse. Oops.




And yet you said a lot of North Americans don't know/care about Cambridge, thus negating your whole point.

So making a whole argument that goes against what you originally said makes you sound even worse. Oops.

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Original post by alexs2602
I guess you're going to neither then because I don't think anyone believes that UoT is as or more world-renowned than Cambridge. There are three to five universities that could make that claim and UoT is definitely not one of them. Oxford, Harvard, Yale. MIT, Princeton. Generally speaking anyway, based on Engineering? Not my subject. And I don't think its prestige relies on its age either. There's more to it than that, plus if that were true Paris-Sorbonne would be more prestigious I believe. If I had to take a guess I'd say you're a Canadian who's a little nationalistic which is strange considering the Welsh spelling of your name.

Edit: Totally Canadian. I sense bias.


Definitely not Princeton. Stanford perhaps.
Original post by Daffyd
In terms of reputation, UofT is just as world-renowned as Cambridge, if not more. It only happens that Cambridge is quite a bit older and people somehow associate that with "better". I've personally visited both schools and seen both facilities (but for medicine) and I can definitely say that personally, I like the way UofT operates much much more. Of course, there's a special respect held for those who can add Oxon. or Cantab. after their names, but UofT has been and continues to be one of Canada (and North America's) leading universities, sitting on top with McGill and UBC.

When it comes to employers perceiving degrees, it's rare that someone be hired just based on their alma mater. When you're looking for your first job or internship after graduation, usually you will have to supply your transcripts as well as a CV. Those and interviews will be what decide whether you get employed, not where you got your degree. That being said, you should also consider where exactly you wish to work afterwards. Canada is abundant in natural resources and Ottawa is rolling out a ton of new projects that require a lot of engineering work (such as the Keystone pipelines,the Inuvik road, etc.), so depending on the type of engineering you wish you study, that may also be something worth considering.

However, you should know that a Canadian citizen can work anywhere in Canada and relatively easily in the US. A British citizen, however, can work almost anywhere in the EU. Note, though, that it is not easy becoming a British citizen and can take up to 5 years, not including the time you spend there as a student with a Tier 4 visa, because their student visa is granted on the expectation that you will leave after graduationwhere as an immigration visa is granted on the terms that you will stay and work and contribute to British society. There are also EU laws which stipulate that certain employers must give jobs to EU citizens over non-EU people, if they offer the same qualifications. I am not sure if this will hinder your chances at finding employment there.

Lastly, you should also think about where would make you the happiest. You will be spending around four years in a place for a lot more than just studying. Cambridge is full of history and you'll be able to travel around the UK (and Europe) by hopping on a train. Toronto and the GTA is one of the most vibrant cities in the world and it is currently the economic centre of Canada. Toronto is a lot more than just a "university-city" and Canada is arguably much more advanced in terms of human rights.

Hope this helps! :smile:


In terms of global reputation, Cambridge definitely wins. The world university rankings are also based on international students, international members of staff, reputation surveys from employers/academics, and Cam ranks above Toronto on basically all of them.

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