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Is science an absolute truth? What does a 'scientific theory' literally mean?

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Original post by YNM96
Digression: Do you trust in science? That is, are you reliant on science; do scientific principles affect your perception/ your decisions/etc... on life even in the remotest way?

Also, does this acknowledgement of limitation not irk you (interminable search for an understanding of the world (how it functions) which is unlikely to be found)?


Do I trust science? Most of the time. Depends on the nature of the research, and who is doing it (and by extension, what their motives are). Medical research can be quite controversial as sample sizes are often small and trends are not always highly significant. Social science is particularly vulnerable to bias. To give an example: I read a paper recently which attempted to show that the Fukushima nuclear disaster was killing hundreds of people a week in the USA. Close examination of the figures revealed they were nowhere near as statistically significant. Subsequent examinations of the levels of radiation detected in the USA showed that there was not enough to cause significant health effects in the long term, let alone the short term (which is what the paper was discussing). Clearly the motives behind this 'science' paper are to scaremonger rather than ascertain the truth through original research.

Physical sciences can be trusted a lot more, as results can be verified by anyone with the equipment in order to do so. One has to trust that what you read in the science journals is indeed a faithful representation of what the people doing the study did and what they found. This is why peer review is important. It's not infallible, but it can weed out a lot of bad science if done properly.


Science massively affects my perception of the world. I studied a physics degree as an undergraduate. During my time, I learnt a lot about the way the world works, and it gave me a great intuition of how things I'm unfamiliar with should work because I understand the world at a fairly fundamental level (interactions of particles via forces, thermodynamics, energy etc). There are a few principles in physics which we can be certain are correct and will never be violated on a universe wide scale, and a lot of other ideas which we know to be very accurate in virtually every situation, while knowing the limitations of them. We know that theories are rarely complete and work 100% of the time, but they're good enough for the vast majority of the time when they do describe reality.

The limitation of science does no annoy me at all. As someone who intends to spend the rest of his life in science research, it's kind of a good thing to know that I'll never no longer be needed!
Original post by Are you Shaw?
The skeptical argument is also circular though is it not? It presumes we don't know anything to conclude we don't know anything.


No, the argument relies on whether knowing we are not in a SP is a prerequisite for knowledge. With that definition in hand, it follows we can't know anything.

So it's to do with the definition of knowledge, really.
Original post by xMr_BrightSide
No, the argument relies on whether knowing we are not in a SP is a prerequisite for knowledge. With that definition in hand, it follows we can't know anything.

So it's to do with the definition of knowledge, really.


Quite clearly though we do know some things, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to respond to my post. The skeptic would respond that can't really know for certain because maybe you're an ape who just typed in random keys and got lucky. It seems to me skepticism should be rejected simply on the grounds it's infailable.
Reply 123
Original post by Manitude
Do I trust science? Most of the time. Depends on the nature of the research, and who is doing it (and by extension, what their motives are). Medical research can be quite controversial as sample sizes are often small and trends are not always highly significant. Social science is particularly vulnerable to bias. To give an example: I read a paper recently which attempted to show that the Fukushima nuclear disaster was killing hundreds of people a week in the USA. Close examination of the figures revealed they were nowhere near as statistically significant. Subsequent examinations of the levels of radiation detected in the USA showed that there was not enough to cause significant health effects in the long term, let alone the short term (which is what the paper was discussing). Clearly the motives behind this 'science' paper are to scaremonger rather than ascertain the truth through original research.

Physical sciences can be trusted a lot more, as results can be verified by anyone with the equipment in order to do so. One has to trust that what you read in the science journals is indeed a faithful representation of what the people doing the study did and what they found. This is why peer review is important. It's not infallible, but it can weed out a lot of bad science if done properly.


Science massively affects my perception of the world. I studied a physics degree as an undergraduate. During my time, I learnt a lot about the way the world works, and it gave me a great intuition of how things I'm unfamiliar with should work because I understand the world at a fairly fundamental level (interactions of particles via forces, thermodynamics, energy etc). There are a few principles in physics which we can be certain are correct and will never be violated on a universe wide scale, and a lot of other ideas which we know to be very accurate in virtually every situation, while knowing the limitations of them. We know that theories are rarely complete and work 100% of the time, but they're good enough for the vast majority of the time when they do describe reality.

The limitation of science does no annoy me at all. As someone who intends to spend the rest of his life in science research, it's kind of a good thing to know that I'll never no longer be needed!


Further digression: Can scientific theory be irrational?
Original post by YNM96
Further digression: Can scientific theory be irrational?


By irrational do you mean not logical or not intuitive?
Reply 125
Original post by Manitude
By irrational do you mean not logical or not intuitive?


Can a scientific theory be logically fallacious.
Original post by YNM96
Can a scientific theory be logically fallacious.

I would say no, but there are almost certainly examples of this happening. Scientists of the past have had a habit of ignoring some data which contravenes a theory they hold to be true. I remain optimistic that today's scientists are better than that, and know that they're not right 100% of the time.

If a logical fallacy has been used in order to obtain a theory, then I don't think it should be taken seriously and I can't see how it would accurately describe nature.

Generally speaking, a theory should be developed thus:

1) Somebody notices something that does not fit with a previous theory.
2) Somebody proposed a mechanism to explain this new observation AND all previous ones.
3) This mechanism should propose new results that are testable and are not the same as previous theories.
4) Someone should test these predictions.
5) If confirmed, the new mechanism replaces the old one as it is demonstrably better.

This is simplified and generalised, and frequently it doesn't work in this way. In an ideal world, this is how science would operate.
Reply 127
Original post by YNM96
Why search for something (understanding of the world) which you can never find (it is impossible to even partially grasp the complexity of the world in its entirety).


Curiosity. Need. To understand something isn't wasted, even if you find out ten things you don't understand in the process - you've expanded your knowledge. That counts for something. Absolute knowledge has increased.

Why learn to play guitar? You'll never be the best guitarist in the world. You'll never be perfect at it. Why do you even bother? Because it's fun, because you can earn £20 busking. Because you want to learn something.

Your effectively asking "If you can't have all knowledge of everything, why bother knowing/learning anything?"

Need: We learn about the brain, we're probably never going to find out exactly how that thing works - but our limited understanding allows us to develop drugs, or diagnose illnesses.

Looking at molecular chemistry, we find out quantum mechanics plays a part - a huge new area of science. But we still use our molecular chemistry for OLED screens (No idea MC was used to develop OLED screens mind you, it's an example lol). Then someone researches quantum effects and in a fifty years: Quantum computers. That would probably be pretty useful.

No doubt we'll find a hundred things we don't know in the process of developing quantum computers... but I don't think that's bad.

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