Could the evident impossibly of nothing be the reasoning for something?

Watch
Cashuina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#1
Basically I'm attempting to answer the great philosophical question how did the universe come from nothing...
The cosmological argument suggests that everything must have a cause and that nothing can be the cause of itself so therefore there must be a first cause.
However the only thing which does not need a first cause itself is nothing.
This implies nothing must of made something. However how could nothing of made something with nothing to make something with.
So nothing itself simply must of became something, by perhaps the impossibility of itself.
Maybe nothing is 0 and then all the energy in the world is either way of zero, so in the end everything adds up to nothing.



Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Calvin
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#2
Report 7 years ago
#2
(Original post by Cashuina)
However the only thing which does not need a first cause itself is nothing.
Posted from TSR Mobile

What does this sentence mean? Nothing isn't a thing, it's an absence of things. Why is the absence of things an impossibility?

This implies nothing must of made something
Can you clarify the implication here. Why must nothing be made of something? Things are made of something. Nothing isn't a thing, it isn't made of anything. By definition.

You seem to be making a semantic leap from "Nothing exists" to "Therefore at least one thing exists: nothing". Which is clearly fallacious unless you have a very interesting definition of "thing".
0
reply
Cashuina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#3
Okay I just don't know how the **** anything could have come about
All I'm trying to say is if something came from nothing
Nothing must be able to become something


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Cashuina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#4
And I got nothing and something the wrong way round


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Calvin
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#5
Report 7 years ago
#5
(Original post by Cashuina)
Okay I just don't know how the **** anything could have come about
All I'm trying to say is if something came from nothing
Nothing must be able to become something

Posted from TSR Mobile
If it's the case that something came from nothing, then absolutely you're right, it must be possible.

But there are other possibilities:
- Perhaps something has always existed, there simply is no first cause.
- Perhaps time is much more incredibly complicated than we currently understand and the idea of cause and effect we have today is too simplistic. In the same way that electricity, or stars, were completely beyond the comprehension of people a million years ago.

I am not sure this is a problem we can just sit down and think about and arrive at a solution. It takes a lot of study into cosmology and physics to start to make sense of.
0
reply
Cashuina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#6
Thanks


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
KeepYourChinUp
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#7
Report 7 years ago
#7
(Original post by Cashuina)
Basically I'm attempting to answer the great philosophical question how did the universe come from nothing...
The cosmological argument suggests that everything must have a cause and that nothing can be the cause of itself so therefore there must be a first cause.
However the only thing which does not need a first cause itself is nothing.
This implies nothing must of made something. However how could nothing of made something with nothing to make something with.
So nothing itself simply must of became something, by perhaps the impossibility of itself.
Maybe nothing is 0 and then all the energy in the world is either way of zero, so in the end everything adds up to nothing.



Posted from TSR Mobile
I understand the logic behind your argument but maybe it's just the way you worded it but nothing is not something. If there is nothing, there can NEVER be something "don't believe the hype." Which means there was always something.

(Original post by Calvin)
- Perhaps something has always existed, there simply is no first cause.
This.
0
reply
The_Duck
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#8
Report 7 years ago
#8
If you do the sums, there is actually a large branch of physics that suggests that the total energy level of the universe is zero. Besides the cosmological argument fails upon so many levels, don't even try to argue with it.
0
reply
KeepYourChinUp
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#9
Report 7 years ago
#9
(Original post by The_Duck)
If you do the sums, there is actually a large branch of physics that suggests that the total energy level of the universe is zero. Besides the cosmological argument fails upon so many levels, don't even try to argue with it.
The total net energy of the universe is zero. As you probably know this doesn't mean that the universe has no energy, it just means that the positive energy in the form or mass is equal to the negative energy of gravity.
0
reply
The_Duck
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#10
Report 7 years ago
#10
(Original post by KeepYourChinUp)
The total net energy of the universe is zero. As you probably know this doesn't mean that the universe has no energy, it just means that the positive energy in the form or mass is equal to the negative energy of gravity.
Yeah, but the OP's argument can be deconstructed if you talk about potentials. He talks about everything adding up to nothing which is sort of what I was on about.

Not really sure if i've given a good explanation there
0
reply
Picnic1
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 7 years ago
#11
I wonder whether we can prove that there is such thing as a self created, self contained, vacuum (or a vacuum that has always existed in space and time in that particular shape and position) or whether a vacuum is always created by a physical cause.

If a vacuum is not always created by a physical cause then either a) it must pre-date all physical things or b) it must operate outside of the laws of physical things or c) some other agent such as a God must have created it.

'Common sense' tells us that there must have been a time when the universe was a complete vacuum, physically speaking, because otherwise what was the cause of the physical stuff in it?

It is impossible to think how a vacuum in itself could create matter.

But it also wouldn't think that it is was impossible to have nothingness. Nothing at all 'has' to exist.

It points towards another agent as being the most likely explanation for there being 'stuff' in the universe. Whether that's God or just unconscious nature saying 'WTF? There's nothing here!' is a brain bending matter of soul destroying magnitude. Personally, I like to think that it gives good reason to say that God is the best explanation. You can hate God, if God exists, all you like for the evil in the world but that evil is partly in your vices, hates and things that you could have done and didn't. God, if God exists, also allowed enough love to flourish in the world to counter any evil. The fact that people (including or sometimes especially 'believers') do not use their emotional and practical intellects enough to do this would be a test from God. One day, someone of grace, beauty and talent will show up your petty vices and petty grievances for what they are by example. And then the pattern continues when people realise that the vacuum partly exists in their own mind through their lack of humility or understanding.

I think that the ways of the universe - the metaphorical interplay between the personal and the external - is infinitely more complicated than most people realise. Until they do, nothing but the disappointments of old age await them. It is nature's way. Is it 'God's' way though? Hmm... well everyone who seems to have it 'worked out' for their own desires is forced to live alongside those who don't and vice versa. Never mistake Earth for heaven. Your idea of heaven may be someone else' s idea of hell or the kind of heaven that they spend their lives enviously looking at , never making any inroads in to truly 'earning' that way of life themselves.
0
reply
Axiomasher
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#12
Report 7 years ago
#12
(Original post by Cashuina)
Okay I just don't know how the **** anything could have come about
All I'm trying to say is if something came from nothing
Nothing must be able to become something


Posted from TSR Mobile
Maybe the absence of anything turns out to be unstable - because there are no 'rules' to prevent a 'something' from occurring?

I can't think of any explanation that wouldn't be mind boggling.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Feeling behind at school/college? What is the best thing your teachers could to help you catch up?

Extra compulsory independent learning activities (eg, homework tasks) (9)
6.12%
Run extra compulsory lessons or workshops (24)
16.33%
Focus on making the normal lesson time with them as high quality as possible (25)
17.01%
Focus on making the normal learning resources as high quality/accessible as possible (21)
14.29%
Provide extra optional activities, lessons and/or workshops (42)
28.57%
Assess students, decide who needs extra support and focus on these students (26)
17.69%

Watched Threads

View All