Labour Party to offer EU Referendum Watch

Ace123
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After only rejecting an EU referendum weeks ago Labour will now announce they will support a vote. Sources say it will be offered later than the Tories 2017 policy

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A1P0KM20140226

We heard it all with the Lisbon treaty does anyone believe Labour? why it help them win the election? are they only doing it because of UKIP?
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thesabbath
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Not sure why anyone would believe Labour on this after their disgusting and treacherous signing of the Lisbon Treaty, breaking their 2005 election manifesto pledge: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...eferendum.html

Nor can we place our faith in Dave " Cast Iron " Cameron or Nick " It's time for a REAL Referendum on Europe " Clegg.

Only UKIP can be trusted to deliver an EU referendum.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Ace123)
After only rejecting an EU referendum weeks ago Labour will now announce they will support a vote. Sources say it will be offered later than the Tories 2017 policy

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A1P0KM20140226

We heard it all with the Lisbon treaty does anyone believe Labour? why it help them win the election? are they only doing it because of UKIP?
What source is this article referring to? How are we to know if it has given reliable/accurate information if it has been left unnamed?

If true, I think it could only help them win the election (there doesn't seem to be any significant body of voters (within Labour) who reject a referendum). If true, I wouldn't immediately say that they are doing it because of UKIP (because 'Labour-to-UKIP' defection doesn't appear to be a big thing).

(Original post by thesabbath)
Only UKIP can be trusted to deliver an EU referendum.
Why?
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Tremmel
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(Original post by thesabbath)
Not sure why anyone would believe Labour on this after their disgusting and treacherous signing of the Lisbon Treaty, breaking their 2005 election manifesto pledge: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...eferendum.html

Nor can we place our faith in Dave " Cast Iron " Cameron or Nick " It's time for a REAL Referendum on Europe " Clegg.

Only UKIP can be trusted to deliver an EU referendum.
Yes, only the one-issue party BASED on leaving the EU can be trusted to deliver an EU referendum... what did you think?
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meenu89
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Seeing as Labour will win the next election, this could be very important.
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Burridge
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(Original post by Ace123)
After only rejecting an EU referendum weeks ago Labour will now announce they will support a vote. Sources say it will be offered later than the Tories 2017 policy

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A1P0KM20140226

We heard it all with the Lisbon treaty does anyone believe Labour? why it help them win the election? are they only doing it because of UKIP?
I don't know whether the article is true or not, but I think Labour must pledge to hold a referendum. It's just ridiculous that it's not policy yet. The rising support for UKIP and opinion polls clearly show that there is widespread disillusionment across the country about our relationship with the EU. It genuinely baffles me why Labour will not come out and offer a referendum.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by thesabbath)

Only UKIP can be trusted to deliver an EU referendum.
Would UKIP even bother with a referendum? They clearly want out and as Farage has said, want out regardless of if it's in the economic intrest of the UK or not. It's my suspicion, that if, in the insanely unlikely scenario that UKIP win a majority in 2015 that they'll just leave the EU, regardless of what the people want.

My opinion: offer a refernedum when you can ensure that people will have a clear, objective discussion on both sides... that won't happen, so don't bother until that can.
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thesabbath
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Would UKIP even bother with a referendum? They clearly want out and as Farage has said, want out regardless of if it's in the economic intrest of the UK or not. It's my suspicion, that if, in the insanely unlikely scenario that UKIP win a majority in 2015 that they'll just leave the EU, regardless of what the people want.

My opinion: offer a refernedum when you can ensure that people will have a clear, objective discussion on both sides... that won't happen, so don't bother until that can.
Do you believe that UKIP could win a general election without the electorate as a whole desiring to leave the EU? If so it would certainly give the lie to those who claim that UKIP is a single issue party.

Your "opinion" that a referendum should be offered (by whom?) only in the event of what you deem to be an "objective discussion" strikes me as elitist and undemocratic. If there are compelling arguments in opposition to this view then they should be made and realistically would already have been made. As far as I am concerned UKIP have already won the argument, but you seem to feel that their arguments are invalid. Why? Why should we surrender our national sovereignty, our borders, our courts of law, our cultural homogeneity, our ability to enact trade relationships, our energy policy, our military, our police force, our elected parliament? Why should we submit to the EU Empire and its commitment to "ever closer union" and a United States of Europe (with one flag, one anthem, and one demos)?
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Ace123
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Would UKIP even bother with a referendum? They clearly want out and as Farage has said, want out regardless of if it's in the economic intrest of the UK or not. It's my suspicion, that if, in the insanely unlikely scenario that UKIP win a majority in 2015 that they'll just leave the EU, regardless of what the people want.

My opinion: offer a refernedum when you can ensure that people will have a clear, objective discussion on both sides... that won't happen, so don't bother until that can.
UKIP would not have to win to hold an EU vote they would only need a coalition like the libdems with the AV referendum and in a 4 party system and both tories and labour not habing popular leaders that is possible
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by thesabbath)
Your "opinion" that a referendum should be offered (by whom?) only in the event of what you deem to be an "objective discussion" strikes me as elitist and undemocratic. If there are compelling arguments in opposition to this view then they should be made and realistically would already have been made. As far as I am concerned UKIP have already won the argument, but you seem to feel that their arguments are invalid. Why? Why should we surrender our national sovereignty, our borders, our courts of law, our cultural homogeneity, our ability to enact trade relationships, our energy policy, our military, our police force, our elected parliament? Why should we submit to the EU Empire and its commitment to "ever closer union" and a United States of Europe (with one flag, one anthem, and one demos)?
I agree that not having a referendum is undemocratic, however I don't think asking the public to make an uninformed desicion is better in any way shape or form, in fact I'd say forcing the public to make a desicion when you know they haven't being given all the neccesary data to make a judgement is even more undemocratic.

Please note; this is not entirely to be laid at the feet of UKIP, the supporters of further Euro integration have been just as guilty of using suspect figures and extrapolating them to infer things they quite clearly don't.

I'd also note that the timescale for the referendum that has been bandied about (2017) will essentially mean there is only one option on the table, out and that won't be a choice. I just don't believe ANYONE can negotiate a pan-European, unanimous agreement on Treaty change in less than 2 years. Idf they do manage to do it, then I think it will not allow people enough time to examine figures and consider the consequences of their vote, either way.

(Original post by Ace123)
UKIP would not have to win to hold an EU vote they would only need a coalition like the libdems with the AV referendum and in a 4 party system and both tories and labour not habing popular leaders that is possible
I hadn't considered that. To be fair though I don't think Labour or the Lib Dems would consider a coalition with them due to policies in other areas and I have a sneaky feeling the Conservative higher-ups don't want to be in coalition witht them either.
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wildrover
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It's a good move from Labour as it will make it more likely a Conservative voter will vote for UKIP
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Burridge)
I don't know whether the article is true or not, but I think Labour must pledge to hold a referendum. It's just ridiculous that it's not policy yet. The rising support for UKIP and opinion polls clearly show that there is widespread disillusionment across the country about our relationship with the EU. It genuinely baffles me why Labour will not come out and offer a referendum.
Because they rightly imo believe that this election will be won on the basis of the economy. In the Euros they also look like seeing a 10% gain at a minimum.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by meenu89)
Seeing as Labour will win the next election, this could be very important.
Not a sure thing tbh. If scotland leaves the union would most likely be the very last labour government
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Burridge
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Because they rightly imo believe that this election will be won on the basis of the economy. In the Euros they also look like seeing a 10% gain at a minimum.
The economy will be, as it was in 2010, the single-most important issue. But that doesn't mean that they should just abandon the EU issue altogether; it will be a priority for most voters, and Labour should recognise that.
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meenu89
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Not a sure thing tbh. If scotland leaves the union would most likely be the very last labour government
Scotland will not leave. Labour would have won in 1997, 2001 and 2005 without Scotland.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Burridge)
The economy will be, as it was in 2010, the single-most important issue. But that doesn't mean that they should just abandon the EU issue altogether; it will be a priority for most voters, and Labour should recognise that.
I believe a pollster assessed priority issues a year or so ago (little reason to think there's been a big change) and found that even among Ukip voters EU membership was their third voting priority, among Labour is was way down the list in the 5-10 range indicating that there's probably not all that much political capital. Further, Labour's 4-8% lead (ICM is the one i trust and has shown this range in 17 of the last 22 monthly polls) is quite dependent on about 30% of the 2010 Lib Dem vote (so about 5% of the electorate) voting Labour in 2015, they may not like an EU referendum being set in stone versus the treaty thing already in statute which obligates a referendum if there's treaty change.
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Will Lucky
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(Original post by thesabbath)
Nor can we place our faith in Dave " Cast Iron " Cameron
Just going to point out that was in regards to a Referendum on Lisbon, not the EU itself. Once Brown ratified the treaty there would be no legal standing to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. It would have literally been throwing money at a vote that couldn't have legally changed anything.
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thesabbath
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(Original post by Will Lucky)
Just going to point out that was in regards to a Referendum on Lisbon, not the EU itself. Once Brown ratified the treaty there would be no legal standing to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. It would have literally been throwing money at a vote that couldn't have legally changed anything.
On the other hand, he was given the opportunity to back an EU Referendum in 2011 (not necessarily in/out) and imposed the three-line whip on his party to vote Against it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15425256

This is the action of a man who does not want to give us a referendum on the EU. Hence having been forced on the issue by UKIP, he has kicked it into the long-grass, some years from now, conditional on major reforms which won't happen, and on him being elected with a Tory majority, which won't happen.
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ZionstCrimeFctry
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Didn't the conservatives offer a referendum? where is it?Don't believe Labour they're bigger liars than the Cons.They only want Democracy when it benefits them.
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uktotalgamer
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(Original post by meenu89)
Seeing as Labour will win the next election, this could be very important.
Do you have to rub it in? Bloody stupid regular voters with no idea who on earth to vote for. Labour are just so full of **** it's unbelievable. But they make up these ludicrous policies that your average joe thinks is a great idea. Freeze electric and gas prices? Cracking idea from the outside. But what happens if those wholesale prices go past the freeze? Who pays the difference.

However, I will never vote Labour simply because of their all women shortlists. Positive discrimination is horrible.

What a farce of a party.
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