Right Wing Vs. Left Wing

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Bridget Jones
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Helloo, thought this would be a good topic to debate about!

So, which one is better: Right wing or Left wing? Discuss!

Please leave your opinion and your reasons below.

Have provided some background information:

Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.

In the UK the main left wing parties are the Labour Party and the Green Party. They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination. They believe that we should tax rich people more to support people less well off, and they believe we should regulate big businesses so they serve people’s interests. They believe that a good welfare system means people are healthier, more able to work, and will put more back into the economy. They also typically believe country-wide tax-funded action on climate change is necessary.

Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. They believe in freedom to succeed over equality.

In the UK the main right wing parties are the Conservative (or Tory) Party, and UKIP (who focus on the UK not being a part of the European Union). They believe that if you have more money, you should get to keep it, and buy better education and health services for yourself. They believe that businesses should be less regulated, and that the more money they earn, they’ll bring more benefits to the country. In 2008 2/3 of Tory MPs didn’t think climate change was a priority, but their leadership says it’s important. They are more likely to focus on energy security (oil and gas are set to run out very soon, and they won’t want to rely on other countries).
http://idontgetpolitics.co.uk/right-left-wing

Here's a lovely picture, illustrating each side beautifully and after I had a look at the picture, I have realised that I am most definitely left wing:

Name:  1276_left_right_world.png
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http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...s-right-world/

Personally, I would say I'm mostly left wing and I would say that my values and even, my personality is quite left wing. But I can see inherent problems, for example: if we did redistribute wealth, yes, it would reduce the social divide between the poor and the rich, but it would also bring everyone down to the same level and keep them there. Yes, everyone would be equal, but it would be too restrictive for those who want to get ahead in life and make the most of their intelligence, talent and abilities.

However, the reason why I don't agree with the right wing, is that if people use their reputation, status and wealth in society to get ahead, it just makes the social divide bigger and for no valid reason, other than that they were born into a particular family. Also, we live in a society. You are a part of that society, so we are all somewhat dependent on each other, so we need to help each other, if we want to improve the society. However, I do value individualism.

I feel that left wing politics is the lesser of two evils, as being equal is better than going to both extremes (ie extremely poor or extremely weak). I think the best society would be a combination of the two, but they are very conflicting, as you cannot have a equal society that values and praises individualism.

Disclaimer: I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, just simply stating my opinion and justifying it.
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RF_PineMarten
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There are good things about both sides, but I would say I am mostly right wing, for all the reasons stated above about economic freedom and because of small government.

There are some aspects of the left wing which I consider important though. As well as things like the welfare state and NHS, tackling climate change requires government intervention in the economy and cannot simply be left to the free market to sort it out. That's why man made climate change deniers tend to be right wing.
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Bridget Jones
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(Original post by RFowler)
There are good things about both sides, but I would say I am mostly right wing, for all the reasons stated above and because of small government.

There are some aspects of the left wing which I consider important though. As well as things like the welfare state and NHS, tackling climate change requires government intervention in the economy and cannot simply be left to the free market to sort it out.
Yes, I do agree! Did you have a look a the picture? That really cleared things up for me, as I wasn't sure which side I preferred at first, but after looking at it, I can see that I am most definitely right wing. But, there are problems with it, like I have mentioned!
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The_Duck
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Really, the political compass idea is a better way of sorting opinion. In this one I come out as both.
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KingBradly
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Right wing and left wing are a massive over simplification of political ideologies. Fascism and libertarianism are both supposed to be right wing despite being polar opposites.
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Bridget Jones
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(Original post by The_Duck)
Really, the political compass idea is a better way of sorting opinion. In this one I come out as both.
The political compass, this?: http://www.politicalcompass.org/

(Original post by KingBradly)
Right wing and left wing are a massive over simplification of political ideologies. Fascism and libertarianism are both supposed to be right wing despite being polar opposites.
Fascism: A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government (ie no equality amongst society)

Libertariansim: One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state (ie again, no equality amongst society)

They do sound like polar opposites, but I can understand why they are both right wing
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The_Duck
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(Original post by Bridget Jones)
The political compass, this?: http://www.politicalcompass.org/



Fascism: A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government (ie no equality amongst society)

Libertariansim: One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state (ie again, no equality amongst society)

They do sound like polar opposites, but I can understand why they are both right wing
Firstly, yes.

Secondly, they are opposites but the point of the compass is that they are independent of left and right, e.g. a left libertarian believes in social liberties whereas a right libertarian believes in economic liberties.
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Bridget Jones
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(Original post by The_Duck)
Firstly, yes.

Secondly, they are opposites but the point of the compass is that they are independent of left and right, e.g. a left libertarian believes in social liberties whereas a right libertarian believes in economic liberties.
Oh, I see! I did it and its says im a Left Libertarian!
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imtelling
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OP, your description of left and right is a little cliched.

Using words like 'equality' to define one side from the other is problematic because both sides claim to be fighting for equality. Broadly speaking, the left believes in equality of outcome and the right equality of opportunity.

I think the easiest way to define left from right is how much state intervention you believe is necessary for a society to function properly.
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enceladus
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It takes both wings to fly
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Amhorangerdgerriug
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I am a bit of both. I believe in a small state and freedom over equality; however I believe in progression and investment in science rather than 'conserving', and am very anti-religious. I expect it is rare for someone to be solely on one side. For example, I loathe high taxation and want a smaller welfare state, but am broadly in favour of gay marriage.

I suppose the best definition is 'right wing libertarian'
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Bridget Jones)
The political compass, this?: http://www.politicalcompass.org/



Fascism: A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government (ie no equality amongst society)

Libertariansim: One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state (ie again, no equality amongst society)

They do sound like polar opposites, but I can understand why they are both right wing
Fascism: A totalitarian, nationalist ideology where the government is a dictatorship in complete control. Usually enacts some form of ethnic cleansing. Huge public sector. Economy is tightly controlled. People are made to live a certain way and there is very little freedom. Immigration is strictly controlled. There is equality among the classes but no equality among races and usually also the sexes. Also, there is often an aggressive foreign policy.

Libertariansim: Advocates a free market, very small public sector, and completely free civil liberties, government is small. Naturally this will cause inequality among the classes but there is complete equality between the races, sexes, and LGBT people (the opposite way round to fascism). People can live how they like and there is a huge amount of freedom. Immigration is barely controlled. Foreign policy is almost non-existent.

I fail to see the similarities other than inequality that is in two completely separate areas.

To me it seems like the left wing is simply defined as being a very particular brand of socialism that emphasizes on equality, where as all other political ideologies, however utterly different they are, are lumped into the 'right-wing'.

It seems pretty stupid to me.
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Mackay
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I'm a liberal at heart.
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Falcatas
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Right wing and Left wing are silly terms and don't mean much without explanation.
The background information is laughable too, there is nothing left wing about welfarism and environmentalism or having a large state.
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ClickItBack
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(Original post by Bridget Jones)
Helloo, thought this would be a good topic to debate about!

So, which one is better: Right wing or Left wing? Discuss!

Please leave your opinion and your reasons below.
Your source on political ideology paints left wingers as people out to save the world, and the right as beholden to big business and ruthless. In fact both (probably) want the best for society, but have different opinions on the effective means of doing so.

E.g. "They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination." Right-wingers would agree entirely with this as well, because they are all for meritocracy, but the approach the two sides would take would be different.

For example, the top public high school in New York admits people based on their scores on a standardised test as the only criteria. It does not look at family background, wealth, race, or conduct interviews. It has an ethnic makeup of about 70% Asian, 25% White, 3% Hispanic and 2% black (the New York metropolitan area, by contrast, is 13%, 33%, 28%, 23% respectively). A left winger would look at these results and attempt to put a cap on Asian students and lower entrance requirements for blacks/Hispanics so that the school better reflects the ethnic makeup of society. A right winger would be more concerned with ensuring the test is unbiased and a fair test of meritocracy, and then would simply not care about the resultant ethnic makeup.

Ultimately the guiding philosophy of any truly libertarian right-winger is that if you get the best person doing the best job they can, regardless of how skewed the gender/ethnicity/orientation tableau may look, this is the most beneficial result for society - rather than someone with objectively worse attainment being given a leg up.
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Snagprophet
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(Original post by ClickItBack)
It has an ethnic makeup of about 70% Asian, 25% White, 3% Hispanic and 2% black (the New York metropolitan area, by contrast, is 13%, 33%, 28%, 23% respectively).
I thought Hispanics were White.
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Bridget Jones
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(Original post by Snagprophet)
I thought Hispanics were White.
Isnt Caucasian white?
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thesabbath
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(Original post by Snagprophet)
I thought Hispanics were White.
When it serves the American left wing media's purposes Hispanics are White eg Zimmerman vs Trayvon (so they could portray him as an evil white racist shooting an innocent black child, the point being that no one cares about hispanics or blacks being racist).

For all other purposes (eg accusing the GOP of being racist on account of their desire to control immigration, or bragging about how their policies are leading to the USA being majority non-White) they consider Hispanics to be non-White.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Ultimately those of wholly European descent are going to be white but most are of Indian origin or Mestizo (mixed). Besides, for cultural reasons they are bound to identify with fellow Hispanics more than Whites.
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El Salvador
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Left.
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Bridget Jones
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(Original post by imtelling)
OP, your description of left and right is a little cliched.

Using words like 'equality' to define one side from the other is problematic because both sides claim to be fighting for equality. Broadly speaking, the left believes in equality of outcome and the right equality of opportunity.

I think the easiest way to define left from right is how much state intervention you believe is necessary for a society to function properly.
Copy and paste from a website, would you like me to find another source?

Please expand on "Broadly speaking, the left believes in equality of outcome and the right equality of opportunity."

Am I right in thinking that the left is in favour of much more state intervention than the right?

(Original post by enceladus)
It takes both wings to fly
Ooh, I like that and agreed!

(Original post by Amhorangerdgerriug)
I am a bit of both. I believe in a small state and freedom over equality; however I believe in progression and investment in science rather than 'conserving', and am very anti-religious. I expect it is rare for someone to be solely on one side. For example, I loathe high taxation and want a smaller welfare state, but am broadly in favour of gay marriage.

I suppose the best definition is 'right wing libertarian'
Hmm, that's interesting.

(Original post by KingBradly)
Fascism: A totalitarian, nationalist ideology where the government is a dictatorship in complete control. Usually enacts some form of ethnic cleansing. Huge public sector. Economy is tightly controlled. People are made to live a certain way and there is very little freedom. Immigration is strictly controlled. There is equality among the classes but no equality among races and usually also the sexes. Also, there is often an aggressive foreign policy.

Libertariansim: Advocates a free market, very small public sector, and completely free civil liberties, government is small. Naturally this will cause inequality among the classes but there is complete equality between the races, sexes, and LGBT people (the opposite way round to fascism). People can live how they like and there is a huge amount of freedom. Immigration is barely controlled. Foreign policy is almost non-existent.

I fail to see the similarities other than inequality that is in two completely separate areas.

To me it seems like the left wing is simply defined as being a very particular brand of socialism that emphasizes on equality, where as all other political ideologies, however utterly different they are, are lumped into the 'right-wing'.

It seems pretty stupid to me.
Ive realised it is wrong to label them according to left wing and right wing,.

(Original post by Mackay)
I'm a liberal at heart.
Me too!

(Original post by Falcatas)
Right wing and Left wing are silly terms and don't mean much without explanation.
The background information is laughable too, there is nothing left wing about welfarism and environmentalism or having a large state.
Shall I find another source then? Or perhaps you can suggest one?

(Original post by ClickItBack)
Your source on political ideology paints left wingers as people out to save the world, and the right as beholden to big business and ruthless. In fact both (probably) want the best for society, but have different opinions on the effective means of doing so.

E.g. "They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination." Right-wingers would agree entirely with this as well, because they are all for meritocracy, but the approach the two sides would take would be different.

For example, the top public high school in New York admits people based on their scores on a standardised test as the only criteria. It does not look at family background, wealth, race, or conduct interviews. It has an ethnic makeup of about 70% Asian, 25% White, 3% Hispanic and 2% black (the New York metropolitan area, by contrast, is 13%, 33%, 28%, 23% respectively). A left winger would look at these results and attempt to put a cap on Asian students and lower entrance requirements for blacks/Hispanics so that the school better reflects the ethnic makeup of society. A right winger would be more concerned with ensuring the test is unbiased and a fair test of meritocracy, and then would simply not care about the resultant ethnic makeup.

Ultimately the guiding philosophy of any truly libertarian right-winger is that if you get the best person doing the best job they can, regardless of how skewed the gender/ethnicity/orientation tableau may look, this is the most beneficial result for society - rather than someone with objectively worse attainment being given a leg up.
Ok, ill see what source I can find.

Thank you for the explanation, I understand, but im still left wing! I can understand it is probably the best to choose the best person for the job, this is where there are conflicts for me.

(Original post by clh_hilary)
Left.
Same!
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