Does morality exist? Watch

greybearattack
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#1
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Someone tells you stealing is wrong.
What is wrong? I guess the quickest way to prove that this word is nothing is to go over what "wrongness" isn't.

- Wrong isn't putting yourself at a disadvantage or causing yourself suffering. It's considered wrong to steal but we're not disadvantaged or harmed when we steal. We actually benefit from it.
- Wrong isn't putting someone else at a disadvantage. It's not wrong to compete for a job and get selected over someone else, but this will put someone at a disadvantage. They will need to find another opportunity to gain an income.
- Wrong isn't what you want someone to do. Some men want women to have intercourse with them, but it isn't wrong if they choose not to.

Someone said wrong is doing what you're expected not to do. If that's what wrongness is, then all you're doing is stating facts, and no value can be derived from that. Therefore there is no external incentive to be "moral" and all you're essentially doing is showing a posture of aggression.
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greybearattack
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well does it?
What if it isn't real? :'(
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Stanno
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(Original post by greybearattack)
Someone tells you stealing is wrong.
What is wrong? I guess the quickest way to prove that this word is nothing is to go over what "wrongness" isn't.

- Wrong isn't putting yourself at a disadvantage or causing yourself suffering. It's considered wrong to steal but we're not disadvantaged or harmed when we steal. We actually benefit from it.
- Wrong isn't putting someone else at a disadvantage. It's not wrong to compete for a job and get selected over someone else, but this will put someone at a disadvantage. They will need to find another opportunity to gain an income.
- Wrong isn't what you want someone to do. Some men want women to have intercourse with them, but it isn't wrong if they choose not to.

Someone said wrong is doing what you're expected not to do. If that's what wrongness is, then all you're doing is stating facts, and no value can be derived from that. Therefore there is no external incentive to be "moral" and all you're essentially doing is showing a posture of aggression.
You should take the implications for society as a whole into account on top of causing harm. Does stealing negatively effect society? Yes, it discourages working and encourages benefiting from other people working. That would be unsustainable because everyone would just to decide to steal instead of work, and then society would stop functioning.
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greybearattack
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(Original post by Stanno)
You should take the implications for society as a whole into account on top of causing harm. Does stealing negatively effect society? Yes, it discourages working and encourages benefiting from other people working. That would be unsustainable because everyone would just to decide to steal instead of work, and then society would stop functioning.
I agree.
But I wouldn't call that morality.
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Falcatas
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Morality is subjective.

Also your "proof of what wrongness isn't" is ridiculous. You replace wrong for right and just use the opposite examples.
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Comus
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There's an entire branch of philosophy devoted to this question! :laugh:

I'll try to be brief though. The argument for a 'natural morality' is usually dependent upon the existence of a god or other divine being (whose existence is yet to be proven) and there are quite a few holes in Kantian ethics. Personally, I think that morality is a sociological construct and is subjective to a degree but that doesn't mean morality doesn't exist- merely that strictly speaking there is no constant, universal morality. From here we could either adopt utilitarianism or existentialism as a framework for human morality, as those options are generally considered to be a healthier attitude than, say, nihilism.
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Joeman560
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Treat others as you wish to be treated, eventually the other apes will catch on.
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captain.sensible
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not really
we (in my opinion) only do moral things for some rational or irrational expectation to be compensated for it
if there is a recognition of equality among individuals (e.g. I can't hit you, therefore you can't hit me) that's only because it's true and I have no claim to superiority as I am an equally human individual
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TheBugle
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Read some of Paul Bloom's stuff.
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sophieleannexo
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(Original post by greybearattack)
Someone tells you stealing is wrong.
What is wrong? I guess the quickest way to prove that this word is nothing is to go over what "wrongness" isn't.

- Wrong isn't putting yourself at a disadvantage or causing yourself suffering. It's considered wrong to steal but we're not disadvantaged or harmed when we steal. We actually benefit from it.
- Wrong isn't putting someone else at a disadvantage. It's not wrong to compete for a job and get selected over someone else, but this will put someone at a disadvantage. They will need to find another opportunity to gain an income.
- Wrong isn't what you want someone to do. Some men want women to have intercourse with them, but it isn't wrong if they choose not to.

Someone said wrong is doing what you're expected not to do. If that's what wrongness is, then all you're doing is stating facts, and no value can be derived from that. Therefore there is no external incentive to be "moral" and all you're essentially doing is showing a posture of aggression.
I agree that morality exists, but it is a social construct determined by society. Different people have different views on what is wrong & right. In my opinion morality is based on social norms and is justified by what the majority of society think.

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