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Pay damages for the evils of slave trade, Britain told.

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Original post by Tyrion_Lannister

My family were abused by the British army. They were dragged out of their houses, stripped, made to line up in a field while their land was taken from them.

where was this?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 21

felamaslen

This is ridiculous. Absurd. Why not ask the countries which currently engage in the slave trade for compensation? Sudan, anybody? The only reason you could contemplate this sort of thing is because Britain is, and has historically been, one of the more kind-hearted, humane civilisations out there. It was, after all, the first major society on Earth to actually abolish slavery. Pathetic.

I am all for aid to poor countries, however they must also act to make their societies more free.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 22

Mr Smurf

Original post by Tyrion_Lannister

Well that's an inventive way of chatting someone up :lol:

But as this was the early 20th century, no, I wasn't

May I ask where? :ninja:

Reply 23

Tyrion_Lannister

Original post by WeeGuy

where was this?

Original post by Mr Smurf

May I ask where? :ninja:

Ireland

Reply 24

DaveSmith99

Original post by Tyrion_Lannister

**** off. Why should people apologise for something they didn't do?

My family were abused by the British army. They were dragged out of their houses, stripped, made to line up in a field while their land was taken from them. Does it piss me off? Of course.

Do I hate all troops and everyone British and demand an apology? No. I hold those responsible as the government at the time and the ones who carried it out, and that's all. Some people really need to get the chip off their shoulder

People are ripped from their homes, murdered, raped and sold into a life of slavery

A man harmlessly calls a woman love

Reply 25

shadowdweller

Volunteer Section Leader

Original post by Changing Skies

Oh really? So, if you've only been on here for a bit, how did you know I was Lucy96 previously? :rolleyes:

It's a dupe, for sure.

Reply 26

felamaslen

Original post by Fizzel

There is no logical way you can argue that we are even Steven's with any of the remnants of the British Empire. We are one of the richest nations in the world, and the standard of living enjoyed to today by our citizens in as much in part to our ancestors ****ing various people over as their hard work. However going back and deciding exactly what was lost, what benefits were possibly had, how much goes to who, and when the cut off date for individual claims is just impossible. That said some of the requests are pretty reasonable.

Many of the remnants of the British empire are also some of the richest countries on Earth (Canada, Australia, USA, New Zealand). The problem with your analysis is that it ignores the root cause of poverty. The root cause of poverty is lack of freedom, not past empires.

Reply 27

shadowdweller

Volunteer Section Leader

Original post by Changing Skies

Yep

people are so silly

Agreed. It's not even a subtle attempt :lol:

Reply 28

Genocidal

Not really a widely reported case. It's a baseless story and this will never happen. It has no real legal basis and the fact of the matter is nobody broke any actual laws at the time. It was completely legal. You can't sue people for doing things that were once perfectly legal.

It's a nonsense issue and won't go any further. All they'll do is waste their own money.

Reply 29

Tyrion_Lannister

Original post by DaveSmith99

People are ripped from their homes, murdered, raped and sold into a life of slavery

A man harmlessly calls a woman love

Where have I said I don't care? Merely all I said was I don't blame people for the actions of their ancestors. Just like I don't blame someone if their ancestors are misogynistic

Reply 30

WeeGuy

Original post by DaveSmith99

People are ripped from their homes, murdered, raped and sold into a life of slavery

A man harmlessly calls a woman love

she never said she doesn't care. stop twisting her words.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 31

chaz1403

Make a public apology yes teach the negative side of it and remember it yes but paybacks?? On what basis are you going to compensate ppl? 10,000 quid a million. I'll freaking rich by now :wink:

Reply 32

username1315644

Original post by felamaslen

Freedom tend not to just come about immediately it take many many years. You can't run a nation for your own benefit, then simply leave and expect it flourish as if it had been making the progress your own nation had during those years. Many of the countries from the British empire suffered from division, corruption, and poorly balanced economies. Those aren't problems which disappear. Many of the nations we are talking about gained independence, in the mid 20th century, they are relatively recent break aways. In the case of Australia, the US as obvious examples aren't simply independent states. The indigenous people do no not run the country. The US wasn't run by native Americans, and in those countries native americans, or aborigines in the case of Aus didn't exactly get a good deal, and still don't to this day. However the nation in terms of statistical progress still benefitted from having assistance or access to resources much like those being suggested. They still have access to a well educated, skilled people who are able to more quickly develop the nation.

Reply 33

Drewski

So can I sue, in order, the Scandinavians, the Italians and the French for the impact they've had on my life/hometown, and the Germans for them interning my Grandfather?

If not, why not?

Reply 34

Old_Simon

The Compo Culture has gone mad. I blame the lawyers and the Human Rights Act.

Reply 35

CJKay

Original post by Fizzel

This argument doesn't really wash when it comes to compensation rather than apology. Its like my father stealing a load of money from your father, then dying and leaving it to me. You aren't owed an apology from me because I didn't steal your fathers money, but its doesn't change the fact that your life sucks because you had nothing to inherit, and my life is great because I have the money you would have inherited.

There is no logical way you can argue that we are even Steven's with any of the remnants of the British Empire. We are one of the richest nations in the world, and the standard of living enjoyed to today by our citizens in as much in part to our ancestors ****ing various people over as their hard work. However going back and deciding exactly what was lost, what benefits were possibly had, how much goes to who, and when the cut off date for individual claims is just impossible. That said some of the requests are pretty reasonable.

It's not at all like that really, though, is it?
It's more like your great, great, great grandparents traded some money for a flashy car your friend's great, great, great grandparents, and then your great, great, great grandparents had 2 children, who each inherited half of that money, and your great, great grandparents inherited half of that, and your great grandparents inherited half of that, and your great grandparents inherited half of that, and your grandparents inherited half of that, and your parents inherited half of that, and you inherited half of that. Of course, during that time you had two recessions, a couple of world wars, and a number of countries stole money off other countries.

In the end, you got left with, maybe, a fiver from whichever point in history that car might have made money.
On top of that, the number of people who "owe money" is now significantly higher than the number of people who were involved in it due to significant population growth.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 36

niceguy95

i don't see a problem with this…...

Reply 37

De Pays

Original post by niceguy95

i don't see a problem with this…...

Middle class out of touch lefty.

Reply 38

captain.sensible

how can people even put yes as an answer to this? the british empire isn't something that literally exists - an empire is a concept that's based on a society of individuals that are replaced as generations go by. "generations" (through hundreds of years) of people in an empire don't act together and all at once (e.g. to enslave), only the generation in particular has anything to do with this matter of "slavery", and even with this said, things back then weren't democratically controlled by this generation, only the leaders exercised control, so saying that ordinary citizens of the BE today should pay anything for what the leaders of generations of british empires/peoples (that don't exist anymore) did is nonsense because citizens today did absolutely nothing. this treats people as if they are literally their ancestors. people and their ancestors are separate individuals with different personalities and different ambitions, and people's ancestor's leaders (e.g. prime ministers, monarchs, etc) don't speak for anybody but themselves if they aren't elected/chosen fairly/democratically.

the people that (however possible) agree with this misunderstand the fact that the people that did the crimes in question are dead - people in this age being alive doesn't stop the fact that the people that actually did it are dead and unpunishable. that's simply a sad fact and it doesn't get remedied by pinning blame on people's great great great (etc) grandchildren - they didn't exist at the time, so where is the liability or repsonsibility for anything caused if they weren't even in existence?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 39

AW1983

I guess we will have to wait for the outcome of the cases of Boudicca vs. Suetonius Paullinus, Israel vs. Germany and Harold vs William the Conqueror to find out what the precedent is on people suing on behalf of dead people for the actions of other dead people.

Presumably these lawyers assume that the perpetual succession of the British state means that they believe the case is alive and well but I don't understand why they don't focus their attention on the inhumane abuses happening today or the recent past (e.g. Chagos Islands, illegal invasion of Iraq, the Stolen Generations). Presumably it comes down to who can pay their fees.